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Autumn Zodiac

Fyrebird

Spellcaster
Seriously? Of all the valid points I mention regarding including beneficial quests to the event (visiting, trade etc) the ONE thing @Timeh, @MinMax Gamer @randblade take out of it is the potential abuse a chat quest can lead to??? I am beginning to think that unless there is something you guys have to argue about you are just not happy.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
How about visit 150 neighbors, place 100 trades, accept 100 trades, put 100kp into a wonder (yours or others), upgrade 10 buildings, post 50 times in chat (okay for some of us that may be easy ;)), enchant 50 buildings, train 1000 archers/crossbowman/sorceress/priest,
Most of these suggestions would kill off participation for many if not all the lower chapters players, and/or players in an unfavorable neighbourhood. And force players into fellowships.
 
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DeletedUser1874

Guest
OK, also nobody is forcing you play this game. Why not play only games by companies you like?

I don't see this game the way you see it. I see it as a challenge on how to

- optimise the layout of my city
- progress through chapters and
- have a reasonably good ranking

with minimum purchases of diamonds.

It's a game of optimisation of resources and money is one of the resources. Before I spend money, I first check do I need that extra expansion, magic building or event building, and if I see that I do need them then I go for it. Not because of FOMO. I use the elven architect app to plan my city. I have spent much more time on elven architect than in the game in fact.

That being said, I am happy with my current ranking, with 125 expansions and 11 magic residences and no magic workshops I can meet the needs of my city, have plenty of space for chapter 15 and population to do all upgrades. There is no FOMO involved here. Just good planning ahead. And it took me less than 2 years to finish 14 chapters. Sorry (but not sorry) that I have to spell it out and for bragging here. Big thanks to the developers of elvenstats and eleven architect!
Nobody is forcing me to burn an average of EUR 500 a week on bullets either (as opposed to the EUR 100 every few months I spend on Elvenar). But I do. Because I like it as a game - but I do not like the business model it is leaning more and more towards, so I invest more in other hobbies, such as practical shooting. Which is not something that tries to exploit my FOMO. So I vote with my wallet. Is that so hard a concept to understand?
Also, I checked your elvenstats. Sorry (but not sorry) that you forced me to compare our elvenstats and cities only to find out that my tournament average is more than twice yours is, that I have 139 provinces expansions, 19 Magic Residences (and plan of deleting a couple), 5 Magic Workshops, and a ton of level 10 event buldings, not to mention those in the inventory I don't even bother placing even if I could evolve them to level 10, that I've been #1 in tourneys on a number of occasions, and that I have 250k more points despite my main city being on server 2 (not that actual ranking points mean anything at all), and yours on server 1. Oh, and I don't care optimizing my city either, preferring going for looks and variety instead, despite having a dozen or so teleport buildings in my inventory ready to pop when the Elvenar chapter hits. I'm telling you this exclusively because you mentioned bragging, mind you. I would've never bragged first. Wanna know why? Because there's nothing to brag about. If I wanted, I could swipe my CC and reach rank #1 in everything in the blink of an eye by sinking some grands into the game - that is, legally, without breaking the pushing rules. Let that sink in before you think bragging is a good idea again.
 
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Errandil

Conjurer
  • WHAT is it that you do not like exactly, and WHY?
  • HOW can we improve that for you? Give us your ideas and suggestions!
First of all thanks for the acknowledging that the event is far from perfect. Though after the improvements in this event which apparently were based on the feedback I'm a little cautious about the improvements we may see in the next one.

I hadn't seen this mentioned in this thread, but some of the numbers in quests are extremely annoying. We have the Spire divided in sections with 4 encounters, the tournament provinces have 4 encounters, the map provinces have 8 encounters. But for some unknown reason the quests require 5 or 9 encounters (or 45 tournament encounters) and 11 relics. Could you please start counting in 4s when designing the quest requirements? And while we are at it, make 4 tournament encounters count as 1 at map, not five of them.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
I hadn't seen this mentioned in this thread, but some of the numbers in quests are extremely annoying. We have the Spire divided in sections with 4 encounters, the tournament provinces have 4 encounters, the map provinces have 8 encounters. But for some unknown reason the quests require 5 or 9 encounters (or 45 tournament encounters) and 11 relics. Could you please start counting in 4s when designing the quest requirements? And while we are at it, make 4 tournament encounters count as 1 at map, not five of them.
So, do you think this is a random oversight? I am pretty confident that this is intentional.
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Seriously? Of all the valid points I mention regarding including beneficial quests to the event (visiting, trade etc) the ONE thing @Timeh, @MinMax Gamer @randblade take out of it is the potential abuse a chat quest can lead to??? I am beginning to think that unless there is something you guys have to argue about you are just not happy.
They weren't valid points, they were various forms of spam and/or zero difficulty primarily.

How about visit 150 neighbors - I addressed neighbour helps, this is a ludicrously easy quest that can be fulfilled in clicks and is normally one of the first quests in an event series because there is NO difficulty in giving helps. However 150 couldn't be done by lots of cities.

place 100 trades, accept 100 trades - As above. Trade is ludicrously easy so belongs in the opening quests and this would be spam pure and simple.

put 100kp into a wonder (yours or others)
- Why 100? Spend 20kp is already an end-of-event-series quest that already exists.

upgrade 10 buildings - This would result in just spamming upgrades of level 1 residences to level 2 which take 10 seconds each. No difficulty, no challenge. Upgrade 1 building to eg level 16 is the normal option that exists for this quest.

post 50 times in chat (okay for some of us that may be easy ;)) - Spam and again no difficulty just rewarding spam.

enchant 50 buildings - WHAT!? Burning up 50 spells at once can not be a serious suggestion!

train 1000 archers/crossbowman/sorceress/priest - Training troops is already a quest.

increase your culture by x, increase your population by x - Rendered moot by placing summoning buildings.

feed your pet x times - Waste of a very valuable resource, I wrote this.

And why not have options that include T2 productions, eg gain x from T1 OR T2 boosted manufactory? The reasoning has been newer cities not able, but plenty on current quests require a magic academy and new players don't have that. - Valid suggestion that is often made.
 

DeletedUser6338

Guest
So, to kick that off, please continue conversation with the following questions in mind:
  1. WHAT is it that you do not like exactly, and WHY?
  2. HOW can we improve that for you? Give us your ideas and suggestions!


Thank you for the chance to be heard on this and I truly hope all these replies are being considered before a decision to continue this format is made.

What is it that you do not like exactly, and why?

1. The requirement of 'leveled' workshops and manu's. If this was done to prevent people from making large numbers of tier 1 buildings for events, my first statement is 'WHY"? What was the REAL problem with this action? Since this is a game in which people come to relax and enjoy themselves, why would it matter if some people's playing style included demolition their cities to put in large numbers of tier 1 buildings during events? ANYONE is free to do this, so it is not an unfair tactic or something sneaky or only allowed for 'specific' groups of players. If we were competing for some big prize that required 'equality' or a job that had a higher pay for how far we go, then I might understand the desire of those not wanting to do these things, but this is a game in which people should be able to play in the manner that brings them the most enjoyment. If someone made 100 workshops and hence, finished a 'fixed' quest game quickly, then that should be their choice but ALSO their responsibility when the event ended. (as other's have said, even this situation could easily be fixed by having both set quests and then random quests after a certain point.
2. As I mentioned above, the change to random 'unlimited' quests. Myself, and many others as I have noticed, greatly enjoyed the strategy portion of the quests in the events. Part of selecting a 'strategy' based builder game is the enjoyment of using your brain to problem solve and find ways to plan and accomplish things. The 'random' quests completely remove the 'brain' usage and give ONLY random luck. Now, having some luck can be enjoyable, but the chests provide all of that we need. If we were wanting a game of 'chance', then we would play gambling based games. Part of my plan with selecting this game was to keep my mind active and problem solving, in addition to the enjoyment of playing with a team. The actual city building for me is a simple necessity to allow me to enjoy the others areas that I USED TO enjoy but has now been removed in the event (and from what I am hearing, I greatly fear might be about to find it's way to the FA's").
3. The idea that this should be an almost impossibly hard accomplishment in regards to obtaining a fully upgraded grand prize! Again, my same question as before... WHY??? If this is a game and NOT a real life situation, why in the world do we have to try to make it so people can barely squeeze by successfully? I am not saying to make it SO easy that everyone is done it 2 days, but why the need for such high requirements unless it is to force the use of as many of our time boosts and/or to try to get people to buy more diamonds. I have purchased diamonds occasionally, but I do so BECAUSE I am enjoying the game and NOT because I am being forced into it. So, if that is the plan, I believe there are going to be so many 'lower level players' that throw up their hands, that it is going to backfire in the end. If this is NOT the reason, then I again ask why the idea seems to be to make it so hard. Like many have said, we are being FORCED to scout SOOOO far ahead that our entire game is put into a negative state because we have all 'very hard' provinces (I for one was always very careful to keep my scouting down as far as I could and part of that was in the strategy of preparation for upcoming events that require scouting and completion of provinces). As I said earlier, that is a large part of the game I enjoyed and this event went WAAAY to far and now I am at hard in all of my worlds. If the Scouting quests didn't push you far enough, then the relic ones repeatedly have done it (especially when the crafting doesn't offer any relics time and time again). The repeated requiring of large numbers of KP purchases is a very similar situation. Since the cost never resets, we are being FORCED to increase the cost of these KP to such a level that it becomes impossible to progress and will only get worse as we go further in the game. When it becomes this hard to do, why do it??? If there is a reason I am missing that so many people feel it has to be 'hard' to earn a fully upgraded grand prize, I would sure like to know why. (please understand that I am not saying that it's ease should allow people to get all of the prizes they want, but I think it should sure be easy enough for your 'average' player to get one fully upgraded grand prize. I spend HOURS on here everyday (well, I have cut down now because I keep getting 'stuck' and see no reason to steer at a screen in frustration), but even at my playing level now, I am STILL not going to be able to make it and I am in the 80's on quests and I have used MANY MANY boosts to get here.

How can we improve?
There have been MANY great ideas out there, but what I have heard most I agree with. GO BACK to set quests that people can strategize for and remove the requirement for leveled buildings. These 2 areas completely changed the entire dynamic of the game related to the events.
1. Set the quests back to ordered and known. If there is enough need for people to progress, but you don't want an unlimited number of grand prizes out there, then simply remove them from the the options after earning the first ones. If you don't want people to have more then 4, then stop after 4. You can easily pick the highest number of grand prizes you want to allow by not putting anymore in the listing. If people want to keep going for 'other' rewards, like the random buildings, then let them keep going for those and the rewards you earn from chests. If the desire is to allow people to play 'endlessly', then something as suggested before regarding a set line-up that will allow your 'typical player' to achieve at least 1 upgraded grand prize, and then have a second quest line that kicks in after the 'set' one has been completed. This quest line an be random AND HARD!!!!!!! Let people that like to push themselves do so, without penalizing those that want to enjoy a fun and relaxing game.
2. As for the leveled buildings, there isn't a lot to say except there is no reason to require this except to slow down the players that like to 'plan ahead' and strategize. As I already mentioned, it is a fair method for all because anyone if free to do this. There is no punishment for anyone not wishing to make room for extra tier one buildings, just as there is no punishment for those wanting to push further in the game then others. IT should all be up to the playing style and desire of the person playing. There is NOT a $100 prize we are all competing against each other for that would require us to be so worried about what the other person is doing in their game. We should be allowed to play in the manner in which we most enjoy.
3. Make the quests easier! I know people love a challenge, but there is non reason to kill everyone to get that. There would be NOTHING wrong with starting out extremely easy even and SLOWLY build up harder. Again, keeping it 'doable' for most every level of player to be successful for at least 1 upgraded grand prize should not be a negative. Figuring out what area that would be around should not be that hard either. Once that level was determined, THEN start making them progressively harder. Let the people WANTING a REAL challenge to get it, but get it after a reasonable level of accomplishment has been made by all. There is just NO reason that these quests have to push us past reasonable scouting levels, run out KP costs to unreasonable levels, and use up all out boosts, just to manage to get 1 upgraded grand prize (if you are lucky enough to even make it with all of that because I haven't and I have sure tried). Someone mentioned earlier the use of other types of quests such as visiting neighbors, or trading goods, or other 'simple' tasks. Yes, I said 'simple' to begin with and at least up to a level where each person has obtained the one grand prize. This would NOT be a cop-out because the quests can get as progressively hard as you wish, just later for those that like the punishment.. LOL

I will end with the broken record that I have kept saying over and over again, this is a game that we come to play for fun and I do NOT understand why it has been changed to be made as hard as possible to accomplish and have success at. If it were real life or some 'prize' of value that we were competing WITH or AGAINST each other for, then I would understand; but it's not and we are not competing for anything that someone else doesn't have the chance to get. PLEASE consider going back to allowing the game to be strategy like it was and NOT luck, nor so darn hard that our worlds are destroyed in the process of trying to enjoy an event.

Thank you again for asking for feedback and I sure hope it is truly being considered and not just a 'smart' social reply to 'calm the ranks' (smart plan if that was the real reason though). ;)
 

Timneh

Artisan
Seriously? Of all the valid points I mention regarding including beneficial quests to the event (visiting, trade etc) the ONE thing @Timeh, @MinMax Gamer @randblade take out of it is the potential abuse a chat quest can lead to??? I am beginning to think that unless there is something you guys have to argue about you are just not happy.

It is not a case of having something to argue about (at least not in my case) it is about pointing out flaws in your ideas. It would appear that you have not given any real thought to the quests that you proposed. I already pointed out the problem with your chat messages idea but your idea for 150 visits is also just as bad. Think of players in low chapters, there is no way they have 150 neighbours discovered so it would take them days to do 150 visits, they would be far better off with toolbox quests.
Place and accept 100 trades. Placing 100 trades is no problem for anyone but accepting 100 is another matter. There have been issues about the state of the trades in the trader mentioned in other threads already so players might be forced into taking trades they really do not want just to complete that quest or they could hammer the wholesaler and spend all the coins and goods they have. Players in barron areas would also struggle with this quest.
Invest 100 KP into AWs. Again this is something that begginer players can not do. They have to be able to take part in the event too.
Enchant 50 buildings. Not all players have 50 enchantable buildings. Some AWs extend the time of enchantments duration so again it might work out that toolbox quests are better.
Please do not get me wrong it is great that you are coming up with ideas, you just need to think of the whole player base and that means new players to the game as well as more established players.
Again i am not trying to argue with you and i mean no offence with my comments.
 

Errandil

Conjurer
So, do you think this is a random oversight? I am pretty confident that this is intentional.
I'm sure that this is intentional, especially with the spire encounters that have a long cooldowns between the sections. So yes, I was being a little sarcastic. But at least changing this won't drastically lower the difficulty of the event, unlike the reverse to lvl1 buildings or many other things we don't like. So it's more likely to be changed if Inno decide to pretend that they are listening to our complaints. Though honestly I'm expecting that the next event will again start without any of the proposed changes and with no alternative for scouting quests.
 

valle

Soothsayer
I prefer the random quests. The old events where everybody knew the exact order of quests were very boring. That was more like a job, you just look at a list of quests and prepare for the next few ones. It was absolutely no challenge and no surprises in that.

Some things should be easy to do to remove the things that people complain about, like:
- Never let the same quest come twice in a row.
- Put a maximal number of each quest, so when you got 'Create 15 vision viper' maybe 5 times, it is removed from the quest list.

About randomness, many other parts in this game is also random. Actually most games use random numbers a lot. Only think of classical board games where you throw dices all the time. Do people think it's unfair if you get 1s 5 times in a row in a board game?
 

Pauly7

Magus
idea for 150 visits is also just as bad. Think of players in low chapters, there is no way they have 150 neighbours discovered so it would take them days to do 150 visits
Just to say, the answer here would be to make them chapter specific - perhaps 50% of the required provinces to open the chapter you are in. People in chapter 1 may need to do 10 or 20 or something.

I agree about the place and accept 100 trades as this is little more use than "move a building" quests. People will set up a trade of 1 steel for 1 planks and hit the button 100 times. It serves no purpose, the same as it wouldn't to get people to put a dot 50 times in the chat box.

However, I feel like the point @Fyrebird was trying to make is that Inno should be more inventive in coming up with quests that are actually worthwhile activities for people to be doing regardless. I appreciate that sentiment and the list of examples may have just been a bit off the cuff.
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
I'm sure that this is intentional, especially with the spire encounters that have a long cooldowns between the sections. So yes, I was being a little sarcastic. But at least changing this won't drastically lower the difficulty of the event, unlike the reverse to lvl1 buildings or many other things we don't like. So it's more likely to be changed if Inno decide to pretend that they are listening to our complaints. Though honestly I'm expecting that the next event will again start without any of the proposed changes and with no alternative for scouting quests.
The Spire one is a true OR.

You can do 4 encounters in the Spire and 1 in the world map, and that adds up to 5.
 

Geminatrix

Soothsayer
I have to admit that I do see this as a contrived way of getting us to use up our inventory of instants & spending. Not unusual you might say as INNO are in this to make money but I have to admit that the sparkle has gone out of this event for me and I have slowed right down now.

My main issue in this is the ask for current or previous chapter goods manus ... firstly because it isn't always easy to tell what chapter manus you have but also the table i got from support when my quest failed to accept my goods manus turned out to provide incorrect info. secondly because I ended up using so many time instants to get past the issue when I would have been better to just upgrade. Forcing upgrades and use of resources is ok .. within reason but I think this event has gone too far in that direction.

The Grinch is definitely lurking and spoiling this game for me.
 

Timneh

Artisan
I prefer the random quests. The old events where everybody knew the exact order of quests were very boring. That was more like a job, you just look at a list of quests and prepare for the next few ones. It was absolutely no challenge and no surprises in that.

You made the choice to look at the list and prepare, no one made you do it so that was a problem for you by your own making.

This is the thing i don't get, players complained that the events were too easy but they made them too easy because they used lists showing the quests and prepared things in advance. If they wanted the events to be harder then why not stop looking at the lists, that would stop them knowing what was coming next just like they don't know now.
 

DeletedUser1874

Guest
Yeah, but you have been playing 2 years more than me. If I play for two more years my tourney will be much better and my ranking points much higher only from completing provinces. My tourney is actually amazing. I do 2-3k regularly which is enough for my FS to get 10 chests every week and I'm consistently in the top 200 which is slightly higher than my ranking. Why would I want more? Why would you brag about buying provinces and magic buildings? Everybody can. I'd brag about not buying them and still do well. I feel no satisfaction in progressing through this game by buying things. I'd rather optimise my city. It's a much better feeling... for me. I don't get it why do you complain about feeling forced to spend money in this game.

Also, I should say that you discussing shooting while arguing here on the forum is slightly frightening in this day and age...
My point about bragging was exactly to show how pointless it is, so thanks for confirming it further with this expected reply full of unprovable claims..
I complain about underhanded tactics tailored at exploiting psychological vulnerabilities in order to get people's money because... well, why wouldn't one complain about such a thing? You may be ok with getting exploited like that, but most unsurprisingly the vast majority of people aren't.
As to the shooting part, perhaps it has eluded you that I'm talking about a sport, and given it's my most expensive hobby, I figured it'd make for a good example. In fact, I'm not even sure I should be dignifying your incredibly insulting attempt at portraying me like a threatening madman with an explanation.
 
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DeletedUser6046

Guest
My point about bragging was exactly to show how pointless it is, so thanks for confirming it further with this expected reply full of unprovable claims..
I complain about underhanded tactics tailored at exploiting psychological vulnerabilities in order to get people's money because... well, why wouldn't one complain about such a thing? You may be ok with getting exploited like that, but most unsurprisingly the vast majority of people aren't.
As to the shooting part, perhaps it has eluded you that I'm talking about a sport, and given it's my most expensive hobby, I figured it'd make for a good example. In fact, I'm not even sure I should be dignifying your incredibly insult attempt at portraying me like a threatening madman with an explanation.

OK, my apologies! I think our argument, despite being heated, highlighted some imperfections in this game. You are right, vulnerable people can be exploited.
 

valle

Soothsayer
You made the choice to look at the list and prepare, no one made you do it so that was a problem for you by your own making.

This is the thing i don't get, players complained that the events were too easy but they made them too easy because they used lists showing the quests and prepared things in advance. If they wanted the events to be harder then why not stop looking at the lists, that would stop them knowing what was coming next just like they don't know now.

Problem is that it's a normal weaknes most people have, including me. If you can take a shortcut you'll often do that even if you know you shouldn't.
So if the quest list is there to see I'll look at it. A weakness in my character you might think. I plead guilty.
For that reason it's better for me to not be able to see that list. And making the quests random solves that problem.
 

Timneh

Artisan
Problem is that it's a normal weaknes most people have, including me. If you can take a shortcut you'll often do that even if you know you shouldn't.
So if the quest list is there to see I'll look at it. A weakness in my character you might think. I plead guilty.
For that reason it's better for me to not be able to see that list. And making the quests random solves that problem.

My point is that people that look at quest lists should not then complain that the event is too easy. If they do not have the willpower to refrain from looking at the quest lists the problem is with them and not the event.
 

valle

Soothsayer
My point is that people that look at quest lists should not then complain that the event is too easy. If they do not have the willpower to refrain from looking at the quest lists the problem is with them and not the event.

So if you got a problem with random quests it's a problem with you and not the event.
 
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