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Discussion Autumn Zodiac

valle

Alchemist
Not to go too far, but Winter Market and Carnival sets were arguably superior to anything we have seen since then - Fire Phoenix might be a sole exception.
They sure are nice to have (I got carnival set), but they offer nothing unique. The things they produce you can get from a lot of other sources.
The brown bear offers the possibility to vastly increased troop production. For that reason I think it's superior to the ones you mentioned. But thats what suits me, players not fighting that much might not be that impressed by it.
 

m4rt1n

Sage
@valle yes all the pets are unique, but how are you supposed to get the true benefits without Petfood, which Inno has reduced in chance of appearing in crafting?

Vallorian Valor can still be crafted, as can Grounds of Orc Strategiest, both with same or smaller footprint of a brown bear and don't need feeding, and give troops on a 6 hour early collect, not the 48 hours of the brown bear.
 
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MinMax Gamer

Enchanter
The things they produce you can get from a lot of other sources.
The brown bear offers the possibility to vastly increased troop production.
Those set buildings provide possibility of "vastly increased production" of T1, T2, T3, mana and seeds - all without any extra inputs. What brown bear produces is "nothing unique", it is the same troops that can be produced in barracks, mercenary camp and training grounds, as well as in Grounds of Orc Strategist and Vallorian Valor.

See, it's the same argument.
 

Errandil

Spellcaster
But with random quests, the "thats it" point is based on luck. Try this event when you keep having to make 15 vision vapor, because scouts take 88 hours, then have to build workshops from scratch to make toolboxes then groceries then toolboxes again. 3 workshops took me 2 weeks to build.
Then you say you don't like complete 2 provinces from the last event but what is the difference with solve 5 encounters or spire encounters when you cannot scout new provinces quick enough to create the encounters.
I've tried this event with building 16 workshops from scratch and solving 42 scouting quests so far :) I realise that I'm in a bit better position than you, since my workshops take only about 10 days each to build and scouts return after 60 hours. But still a lot of my scouting quests were solved with crafting whatever there is in the academy, which is the same regardless of the chapter you are in. Regarding the spire quests, with about 5% chance of appearing even if you'll be doing them with only the first level of the spire you'll end up getting more than from the events with the fixed quest list.
Anyway, I wasn't arguing that the implementation of the random quests we are seeing in this event is bad. I was just saying that all these problems are related to the implementation, not to the random quest system itself. So initially I was just wondering why everyone is so upset with the fact that the random quests are here to stay. Well, aside from the fact that with Inno talents it might take more than one event to get things properly balanced.

@Errandil I am happy you are enjoying the event and the points I make are not meant as anything personal. :)
I'm not taking it personal :) And, well, I'm not enjoying the event tbh, only the results of it, the process of playing the event is rather painful. I just hope that the next one will be better even if the only difference will be that we can't get the same quest more often than 1 in 10 quests for example. This already should solve most of the issues we are facing now.
 

Heymrdiedier

Conjurer
I've tried this event with building 16 workshops from scratch and solving 42 scouting quests so far :) I realise that I'm in a bit better position than you, since my workshops take only about 10 days each to build and scouts return after 60 hours. But still a lot of my scouting quests were solved with crafting whatever there is in the academy, which is the same regardless of the chapter you are in. Regarding the spire quests, with about 5% chance of appearing even if you'll be doing them with only the first level of the spire you'll end up getting more than from the events with the fixed quest list.
Anyway, I wasn't arguing that the implementation of the random quests we are seeing in this event is bad. I was just saying that all these problems are related to the implementation, not to the random quest system itself. So initially I was just wondering why everyone is so upset with the fact that the random quests are here to stay. Well, aside from the fact that with Inno talents it might take more than one event to get things properly balanced.


I'm not taking it personal :) And, well, I'm not enjoying the event tbh, only the results of it, the process of playing the event is rather painful. I just hope that the next one will be better even if the only difference will be that we can't get the same quest more often than 1 in 10 quests for example. This already should solve most of the issues we are facing now.
im not upset at all, i love this new setup loads more then the previous one. with the fixed quests count you maybe get 5k event currency. with that 5k you could win 10 good daily prizes, or 20, based on the luck with the chests you get and based on the luck with the content of the chests. It was too much luck based. With endless quest i feel you can battle that, if you are in the bad luck draw, then you can just do some extra quests and still achieve your desired goal of prizes.

Now you can still get bad luck on the quests, thats true, but that van easily be overcome with time boosts. I have been using timeboosts on scouts of more then 5 days, and ive been using timeboost on lots of the quests aswell, when i wanted to finish the quest now, and didnt wanna wait 3 hours. And you know what, now that the event is almost over, ive almost doubled the amount of timeboost i had.

And its a good thing for inno aswell, i have even been using diamonds to refresh my crafting recipes, when i crafted everything and the next quest still asked for more vision vapor. Its the first time ever i spend diamonds on an event, buying the extra currency at the end of event has always seemed to expensive to me. But like this, i spend a few times a small amount of diamonds.

I think this ikea model (lots of cheap stuff but end you have a big bill) is the way to go for everything in inno, i always hated the antiques shop model (1 expansion costing 100€)

1 downside i see at endless quests, im as most people a bit greedy, even if i should be happy with 10 grand prizes, i just want more because theres still time. This means the whole event ends up in being a super bussy and stressfull period, while big event used to be the relax point of the game.
 

valle

Alchemist
@valle yes all the pets are unique, but how are you supposed to get the true benefits without Petfood, which Inno has reduced in chance of appearing in crafting?

Vallorian Valor can still be crafted, as can Grounds of Orc Strategiest, both with same or smaller footprint of a brown bear and don't need feeding, and give troops on a 6 hour early collect, not the 48 hours of the brown bear.
You obviously have no clue how to use it. If you try to run it 24/7 then yes, you are going to run out of pet food soon.
But if you run it once a week it should be manageable. The trick is to use time instants to build troops when the bear is active.

The units the bear produces by itself are only a nice bonus, I would have built it anway. It's the possibility to increase normal unit production that is the reason for it.
 

valle

Alchemist
Those set buildings provide possibility of "vastly increased production" of T1, T2, T3, mana and seeds - all without any extra inputs. What brown bear produces is "nothing unique", it is the same troops that can be produced in barracks, mercenary camp and training grounds, as well as in Grounds of Orc Strategist and Vallorian Valor.

See, it's the same argument.
I don't agree. The difference is that it's much harder to increase unit production than it's to increase the things you get from the sets.
You basically only have one production line that give you troops. Sure, for some special units you can have some amounts from specific buildings, but for troops like archers and priests you are stuck to your barracks.
 

randblade

Scholar
I don't agree. The difference is that it's much harder to increase unit production than it's to increase the things you get from the sets.
You basically only have one production line that give you troops. Sure, for some special units you can have some amounts from specific buildings, but for troops like archers and priests you are stuck to your barracks.
Barracks you can use instants on, Sets you don't need to use instants on.

Aqueduct produces 1111 mana per hour for 24 tiles, 46 mana per hour per tile.

Revelers Fountain (Carnival) produces 3694 mana per hour for 9 tiles, 410 mana per hour per tile.

In order to get an Aqueduct to be as efficient as the Fountain from Carnival, even if it were possibe to use instants on it, you'd need to use hundreds of hours of instants per week on it to make it as useful as the Set.
 

Pauly7

Summoner
I'm in agreement with @valle in terms of the Brown Bear. I think that and the Fire Phoenix are the two most important buildings on the game. The main reason is that fighting is much more efficient than catering (which is a whole other debate) and that being the case the military upgrading buildings tend to be more valuable. If you are a sole caterer then it is worthless, but if not then they are amazing.

To say again regarding the endless quest debate: Yes of course it gets people more, but that's my whole problem with it. Inno is no longer regulating how much people can win so all their previous changes and nerfs in the name of "game balance" can all go out the window as people are balancing the game to their own benefit with no regulation.

@Heymrdiedier that's also true about the daily prizes. The people now winning the grand prize many times over can now also have access to all the daily prizes. I think this is potentially disastrous for the game. It also takes the fun out of whether you will or won't be able to win the thing you want.
 

IronOrchid

Seeker
i have to put my two penny worth in here. this event has for me been a flat squib. i have two very small cities i recently started and the even has been so slow one city has only gained 2 bear tokens. that makes placing a bear a total waste of space. my first city in S and D has had to only go for as many tokens as possible chests/balls. the constantly painful repeat of some quests has meant waiting for ever to get through a quest only to be given it again. think scout or research here! i will not manage to level up one bear to max again this is so annoying as i have not even been able to go for a few daily buildings at the cost of trying to go for tokens. and i did buy a key event building!!!! so i can safely say this event has been crap all round.

Personally i enjoyed the 'event' part of an event: Planning what to go after, working out how to get it, going after it and then reorganising your city to get those things before the 'event' and again after the 'event' to fit them in. Then the wait until the next 'event' you know that builds anticipation!

Right now i have gained a shed load of enchantments so won't be using the Magic A for a while. way to go Inno you have invented the 'non event'.

Rant Over!
 
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Jedicris

Seeker
Apart from the fire phoenix I can't remember a better prize than the brown bear that we can get now.
Could you please refresh my memory with any of those great prizes, I can't remember any better than those mentioned.
I think other discussion has preempted any reply I might make here.

But I will make the point that the new evolving buildings require a lot of input and cost. Not everybody is able to evolve them to the high levels where they might be useful. Plus of course, they have to be fed in order to maximise their output. Incurring even further costs.
 

tesla333

Scholar
I was told to put this here so it can be ignored with all the other feedback:

I am utterly furious and disappointed with Inno and their reaction to the feedback to the event changes. Not (only) because they are half-baked and ham-handed but because they are literally destroying our Fellowship.

Despite the substantial feedback about the new event format, the difficulties, the immense frustration and the negative impact on game-play and city development, Inno's last response is "Well, we are not gonna change it. Deal with it or find something else to play." For many in our FS that was the last straw.

And people do. Find something else to play. Its not only the sum of all the widely outlined event design atrocities, its basically this: "We can't play the Elvenar we love AND participate in Events. Its either-or now. Build the city the way you like OR build the stuff you need for an event. Explore and expand at your own pace OR massively overscout to accommodate Event quest requirements. Balance your economy (which is one of the nicest challenges in the game) OR be ready to accommodate huge (and pointless) gold reserves, just in case. And please don't say "WeLL YoU dOnT HAve To PLaY EvENTs" - that's one of the most inane arguments imaginable.

Bottom line is: I gave up on Events (or giving feedback about the - for what?) but now it is destroying my Fellowship and this is infuriating. People are noticeably less engaged and often just frustrated. Many have reduced playtime massively because it has become an unpleasant chore instead of a fun game.

And people are leaving. Thanks for that. Having nice people around was the one thing that made this mess bearable. Take them away... well, your reap what you sow.
 

Verde

Adventurer
Start leaving reviews on Elvenar, or updating existing reviews?
Positive or negative ...
 
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Verde

Adventurer
It is distressing that so many players have been upset by the event changes. Even players who have done well out of the event have had to deal with the unhappiness of their fellows. Not a great situation.
Although Friday's post from Muf-Muf went some way towards explaining and elaborating upon some of the technical aspects relating to the event, there are a great many players who will never read that, not accessing the forum.
It would be sad to see many players lose interest and leave, if that turns out to be the case. Several recent posts certainly seem to indicate this as a strong possibility, with resulting serious impacts on fellowships.
Unsure how Inno could resolve the unhappiness and communicate this with the wider player base. I am assuming that they would like to do so.

Could this have been prevented ... probably. There are a great many experienced and involved players in Beta (also somewhat more resilient than on Live, otherwise why would play on Beta). The endless quest concept could have been trialed there for two or even three events, to work out the complexities and impacts. Would have meant that the Live events could have continued in their previous format meanwhile (however with no advance warning of event quests from beta) but that may have been preferable to the disruption that both the Mermaid and Autumn events have caused.
The Spire stayed in Beta for a considerable time, working out the issues. The recent event changes could have benefited from the same approach.
 

LazyTony

Sorcerer
As explained in this announcement, these kind of quests will stay in future events as well, so I wouldn't advise teleporting all your Workshops if you want to participate in any event :)
And with one quote, they remove my main reason for playing this game, without ever quite realising what they are doing. I could tolerate having my city a mess for an event or an FA, it came to an end and I could build efficiently again. Then the requirement for massive useless inefficient buildings for event quests. Well, I reasoned, I play the spire a lot, I'll teleport the massive pointless inefficient buildings in and out. And now with the increased pace of events it seems I just have to run a mess of a city year round to complete an event. Not doing it. I'll take a break, see if they have changed their mind in a month or 2. Even if they do change their mind, maybe I'll have found a better game and not have the desire the start again. So be it, planning an efficient city, maximising space was my main enjoyment, and now I must run a crappy city week in week out to play an event. Humbug :p
 

Flame Knight

Guest
And with one quote, they remove my main reason for playing this game, without ever quite realising what they are doing. I could tolerate having my city a mess for an event or an FA, it came to an end and I could build efficiently again. Then the requirement for massive useless inefficient buildings for event quests. Well, I reasoned, I play the spire a lot, I'll teleport the massive pointless inefficient buildings in and out. And now with the increased pace of events it seems I just have to run a mess of a city year round to complete an event. Not doing it. I'll take a break, see if they have changed their mind in a month or 2. Even if they do change their mind, maybe I'll have found a better game and not have the desire the start again. So be it, planning an efficient city, maximising space was my main enjoyment, and now I must run a crappy city week in week out to play an event. Humbug :p
Reason for me to not take a break, I just deleted my account and already can't log into the game anymore lol
Inno won't back down, they went in with a stretched leg and after shaking things up like they did, and with these responses you know this was it.
I played many online games and once in a while they go develop crazy and do these things, not one ever backed down.

Sorry to the people I was mailing with, I can't log in anymore. It was nice while it lasted take care all
 
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tesla333

Scholar
Reason for me to not take a break, I just deleted my account and already can't log into the game anymore lol
Inno won't back down, they went in with a stretched leg and after shaking things up like they did, and with these responses you know this was it.
I played many online games and once in a while they go develop crazy and do these things, not one ever backed down.

Sorry to the people I was mailing with, I can't log in anymore. It was nice while it lasted take care all
It was an honor to play with you and I am genuinely sad to see you go.

Right now I am a bit relieved that Chapter 15 came out because it gave some of our most engaged players something to do. In the long term it doesn't change a thing, though - its like coming home with a bouquet of flowers after you cheated on your SO. Temporary smile, long term frustration remains.

I'm still stuck in Orcs, much longer than I planned to (hint to Inno: no, the new event format does nothing for the development of a city, it castrates any progress even worse then the format before) - so my excitement is kinda.. meh. Which is fine, I haven't felt like a I belong in the "Inno's preferred target group of players" for a while anyway

Its just incredibly sad. I remember a time I came home thinking "Yay, I can play Elvenar now!". Now its "Crap, I need to check into Elvenar. Lets get it out of the way so I can do something fun."
 
I suppose this could be a technical possibility, though the quest window's UI would not be able to display the different amounts that nicely, and it would indeed need to be "OR" and not "AND/OR" to work correctly, meaning you would not be able to mix various types of goods. That said, I don't think this has been tested (at least not recently), and it could cause problems that I cannot currently foresee. Interesting idea, though! :)
https://ibb.co/ZdjS0zZ
does this AND/OR mean I can mix them
 
Reason for me to not take a break, I just deleted my account and already can't log into the game anymore lol
Inno won't back down, they went in with a stretched leg and after shaking things up like they did, and with these responses you know this was it.
I played many online games and once in a while they go develop crazy and do these things, not one ever backed down.

Sorry to the people I was mailing with, I can't log in anymore. It was nice while it lasted take care all

I did reply to you in the fs, but looking at this message; I doubt you got it ;) Just wanted to sadly say that I will be right behind you out that door. I have decided to wait a week or so to see if I can find a new game that looks similar to how things used to be here (and share the info with our fs folks) and see if a FA gets ready to start so I could help my fs's with that before I left, but I really think that Inno will change the FA's now or shortly to do similar workshop and manu requirements and mess that all up to.

I did want to say that if you find another game that is similar to the way Elvenar WAS, please tell me. I have been looking around for about a week and have a couple of ideas but nothing I have gotten into yet. I would love to play in a game with you again later, so if you find one and want to share it; please let me know ;)

If not, best wishes and I SURE hate that Inno made the choice to ignore what everyone was saying. There are many of us heading out now because the game is a chore now and not a joy!! ;(