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Armory limit and strategy

Jake65

Sorcerer
Percentage of Squad Size, so that would include Shrewdy Shrrooms Squad Size, too?

1xL39Armory (560) + L30SS (1,560) + L30DB (3,180)= 5,300. More than enough.
1xL39Armory (560) + L30SS (1,560) + L21DB (2,385) = 4,505. Just right. In 1*28 + 28 + 20 = 76 squares, saving 148 squares, 66.1%., 51 Ancient Wonder Levels.

If that's correct, then most efficient in squares, balanced by More AW Levels.
Just to confuse the issue (maybe I'm just confused) as far as I understand training size and squad size aren't the same.
I remember someone asking for training size to be expressed as a percentage of squad (number of troops heading into battle) size.
Shrooms increases training size related to number of armoury levels.
Bulwark adds a percentage of squad size which is greater than the training size. I've just done a squad size research so have missed this boat but maybe someone with a bulwark can check their training size before and after completing the research.
I need a beer.... :)
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Well, that would make this more complicated... Sure looks like my math's off again...

I'm in Chapter 17, I think I've done all the Squad Size Researches. I currently have a Squad Size of 6054.

Wow, even a Level 1 Dwarven Bulwarks, for me, would give a Training Size of 1,363, so better than two Armories right out the gate.

So, I can get a Training Size of 4500 with a Level 13 Dwarven Bulwark all on it's own, without any Armories. That's in 28 squares, saving 196 squares, 87.5%

Okay, I see why people like Dwarven Bulwarks. I thinks I gotta get me some'a that....




Of course, you are probably going to need some Orcs, so maybe some Armories, or Orc Nests or the like...
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Before I edit my Ancient Wonders list, to be clear, both Dwarven Bulwarks and Shrewdy Shrooms applies to all three military buildings, yes? Because I have them down in my table as Barracks only, and that now seems like a mistake.
 

Herodite

Senior Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
@Sir Derf Now I will double check this, but as far as I know... Bulwark is across the board... Barracks, Mercenary, and Training Ground... whereas I believe Shrooms is Barracks only....

**EDIT** Nope... Shrooms is the same as Bulwark and you will see Increases across all Military Buildings! :)
 
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Jake65

Sorcerer
Of course, you are probably going to need some Orcs, so maybe some Armories, or Orc Nests or the like...
Did a quick check:
Level 35 armoury produces 85 orcs per tile per day on 12 hour production or 69 per tile per day on 24 hour production.
Chapter 15 orc nest gives 110 per tile per day.
The winner is the Echoes of the Forgotten at 275 per tile per day.
 

schadenfreude

Conjurer
I am Team Shrewdy over Team Bulwark too! I have both though, but my Shrewdy is way higher.

@syvreta one of the great things about the game is you get to do whatever the heck you want with your city, but that does mean there isn't always a one-size-fits-all solution/answer. Even if we have the same playing style in the same chapter, we might have different level wonders and different level upgrades on buildings. That's enough to change the numbers to possibly be not-comparable. For the armory question, I go by the length of my queue for 5 slots and adjust accordingly. Ideally, you want to cover for your longest time away from the game, which is probably overnight for daily players. I like to pad that a little and have it at 10-11hrs to make it easier to use 5hr timers. If a barracks/training grounds/merc camp gets upgraded, the queue time shrinks again. Now you either add more armories or level up your Shrewdy/Bulwark to lengthen it out again. I don't know what chapter you are in, but early chapter armories/military buildings don't do too much so you generally can't fight too much either or you won't be able to replace the dead troops in time on a weekly basis. To have enough troops to fight is a combo of maxing out upgrades on all military buildings/armories, leveling up wonders that speed those buildings up, and leveling up wonders that extend training size.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
I love my armories so I build as many as I can. I use the orcs to train awesome troops in the Training Grounds and the increased training size is great so I don't have to collect the troop production that often. Also, they don't affect fighting difficulty formula as all wonders do so I can keep autofighting easy.
 
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syvreta

Dreamer
Thank you all so very much. I can see now that I can slow down with research, target only extra space research path and level up all my wonders. Phew, the squad size and training size information helped enormously
 

syvreta

Dreamer
Helped me, too, and I've been playing for a while... *sigh* ...quite a while...
Me too, tho u wudn't know it. I am also upping my Martial Monastery. Your help was good tho as I didn't know I was confused too till I read your posts
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
Thank you all so very much. I can see now that I can slow down with research, target only extra space research path and level up all my wonders. Phew, the squad size and training size information helped enormously

I'd be careful with that strategy as the more wonders you have, the less space you have for guest races and it'll be much harder to progress. Also, the more wonders you have, the harder fighting/catering gets so make sure that you build wonders that help you with that. You don't actually need any wonders to do well in this game. But of course, it's fully up to you how you choose to play your game so happy gaming. :)
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
On the other hand, if your Ancient Wonder can effectively replace several buildings then your Ancient Wonder can actually save space, giving more room for guest races.

Case in point, for me at least, a Level 13 Dwarven Bulwark in 28 squares can produce a Training Size equivalent to 8 Armories that take up 224 squares, saving 196 squares. Use 3 Armories for Orc production and that reduces the Dwarven Bulwark needed for 9 hour Queue down to Level 7, using a total of 112 squares, saving 112 squares.

Yes, you need to balance Ancient Wonder benefits with Ancient Wonder penalties, but when used judicially, then can be, well, Wonderous.
 

Silly Bubbles

Sorcerer
On the other hand, if your Ancient Wonder can effectively replace several buildings then your Ancient Wonder can actually save space, giving more room for guest races.

Case in point, for me at least, a Level 13 Dwarven Bulwark in 28 squares can produce a Training Size equivalent to 8 Armories that take up 224 squares, saving 196 squares. Use 3 Armories for Orc production and that reduces the Dwarven Bulwark needed for 9 hour Queue down to Level 7, using a total of 112 squares, saving 112 squares.

Yes, you need to balance Ancient Wonder benefits with Ancient Wonder penalties, but when used judicially, then can be, well, Wonderous.

We're talking low level players here playing couple of months only. Level 13 Bulwark takes a while to get while you sacrifice other more space saving AWs like Golden Abyss. Also, you can happily keep progressing with 3 armories and short training queue. To me, the best strategy is to focus on one wonder at a time and max it first before you add new ones. This way you save space and gain a very powerful wonder. It does take around 15 levels for the wonders to be more powerful than other buildings that are easier to get so having a lot of low level wonders is not the best strategy. Another thing to consider is that once you build a wonder it's hard to sell it because of all the effort it took to build it so most of the players keep their wonders even when they're not very useful for their current needs. Other buildings are much more flexible and can be sold, stored, rebuild so you can fully customise the layout to the current chapter. Anyway, I'm talking from experience here, this is not just some made up theory, it does align with my own game play and it's proven to work for easy progress.
 

Paladestar

Enchanter
Shrooms is better than Bulwark for both training size and the type of troops it gives you (at least for elves - Archers are far more useful than Sword Dancers). This is even with a small/modest number of armories and the gap just gets bigger the more Armories that you have. You will need a lot of Armories to have a long training queue in the late game, assuming that you also aim to focus on leveling-up your training speed improvement Ancient Wonders (Needles, Flying Academy and Victory Springs).

I have 15 Armories @ level 41 (these give 830 training capacity each). These add up to 12,450 training capacity.

I have a level 13 Bulwark and it gives me 5,756 additional training capacity (I have the current maximum possible squad size - 7,674).

I also have a level 16 Shrooms and it gives me 14,760 additional training capacity.

Total training capacity = 32,972. Each full training slot adds 4 hours, 30 minutes and 26 seconds to my queue. Full queue = 22 hours, 32 minutes and 14 seconds.

Of course, Bulwark has the advantage of being available two chapters earlier, I still skipped it originally, waiting for access to the Shrooms. I only built the Bulwark much later when I had more free space in the more recent guest race chapters. Bulwark was a really, really bad investment before the tournament format was changed a year or two ago, as you wanted to skip the optional training size research upgrades before, as these hurt your tournament play, but this is no longer the case, so the Bulwark isn't anywhere near as terrible as it used to be, but it still comes up short compared to the Shrooms.
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
I'm keen to know what the footprint of the 15 armouries is. How many tiles?
Essentially the shrooms gets it's 'power' from the armoury's training size but how efficient is that as a troops per tile value?
 

Paladestar

Enchanter
I'm keen to know what the footprint of the 15 armouries is. How many tiles?
Essentially the shrooms gets it's 'power' from the armoury's training size but how efficient is that as a troops per tile value?
A level 41 armory takes up a 5x5 space (an expansion-worth of space each). So 15 of them take up 15 expansions/375 tiles.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Question - What does a 12,450 + 5,756 + 14,760 = nearly 33k Training Size do for you?

Well, I suppose that's great on Troop Instants, yes?

How long does a full training queue take?
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
A level 41 armory takes up a 5x5 space (an expansion-worth of space each). So 15 of them take up 15 expansions/375 tiles.
Just checked my level 35 armoury, it's 7*4. Nice to know it will be a few tiles smaller one day :)
 

MinervaOz

Soothsayer
Question - What does a 12,450 + 5,756 + 14,760 = nearly 33k Training Size do for you?

Well, I suppose that's great on Troop Instants, yes?

How long does a full training queue take?

The value of troop instants relates to squad size, not training size.

The main limit on troop numbers is the number of time boosts you have and can use. If you can push your training queue to >20 hours you have more options, as you can use the 20 and 14 hours ones from crafting. Otherwise you're mainly limited to what you get from the Spire.
 

Laurelin

Scholar
I've always wondered - once all the Training Slots are open, is there any other effect of upgrading the Barracks [or its two analogues] besides:

1. Increasing Training speed;
2. Increasing Ranking Points; and
3. Altering the building's footprint if it will better fit one's layout...?

There seems to be no other effect, according to the Barracks / Training Grounds / Mercenary Camp Tooltips, but are there perhaps any hidden ones?

Thank in advance... :)
 
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