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Are diamonds necessary?

Sir Derf

Illusionist
Rather than pollute another thread, I'll start a new one.

Bearing in mind that I am discussing forced game mechanics, not personal expectations and desires, are diamonds necessary? What are the things that only diamonds can do, and are any of them necessary to be able to unlock the last Cosntructs Tech?

Diamonds can speed up production times, but you could just wait.
Diamonds can unlock a tech you don't have the prequisites for it, but you can get the resources.
I'm sure there are other examples where you are basically trading diamonds for time, these don't count.

Diamonds can buy premium buildings. But I think you can progress with normal buildings.
Diamonds can upgrade the Magic Academy, but that's really an efficiency thing, which is a time thing.

The biggie in my mind, though, is Premium Expansions. There is a limit on research expansions and map expansions. Can you accomplish through to Constructs without Premium Expansions?

Is there anything else I've overlooked?
 

Flame Knight

Guest
So why do you think Magic Buildings are not all that but Premium Expansions are?

So no, you do not need diamonds, ALL the things you can do with diamonds in the end are the same thing, more efficiency, they just lighten the load on your gameplay in one way or another.
 

pompeywolf

Enchanter
You can play the whole game without using diamonds (as a lot of people did before ways of getting diamonds without spending real money became available)
 

Killiak

Shaman
Bearing in mind that I am discussing forced game mechanics, not personal expectations and desires, are diamonds necessary? What are the things that only diamonds can do, and are any of them necessary to be able to unlock the last Cosntructs Tech?
Premium buildings (this includes a bunch culture buildings) and expansions are diamond only.
Diamonds are not neccesary, also not for constructs. All it takes is good planning and city building.

The biggie in my mind, though, is Premium Expansions. There is a limit on research expansions and map expansions. Can you accomplish through to Constructs without Premium Expansions?
Yes. Easilly.
 

tesla333

Scholar
Short, answer (to your title): No

Long answer: Without the ability of purchasing premium expansions, I would not be playing the game anymore (and I am not just guessing here. I had a threshold in May where I made a conscious decision to give the game a chance and invest actual money for expansions or find a different game).

And I think there is an incredible boon to diamonds on a very small scale: They can safe you in a pinch - Its 8:30am, you have to leave for work and you wont be back for at least 12 hours. Your last 2day production necessary for the next quest is 27 minutes from finishing. You can stall your progress for another 12 hours or pay 7 diamonds to finish. What do you do? (And this happens more often than you'd think).

So, in conclusion: Yes, you can totally play all the way to Chapter whatever without ever spending a diamond. BUT you will always be slightly outperformed by your peers, you will always be short this one expansion and you always feel that you are trying to catch up to something intangible. (I should know, I felt like this for the better part of 3 months)
 

Crowella

Soothsayer
With regard to upgrading the Magic Academy, it's not just about time to produce spells. It's also about the bonus to spell fragments. With so many events now requiring either crafting or actual disenchanting to fragments, having a level 2 Magic Academy is a significant disadvantage vs. having one that is more upgraded. Of course you can always wait to do more tournaments to earn more spells to disenchant, etc. It's still a matter of time, but in a more subtle and longer-term way.

I am a modest diamond purchaser (I spent $5 on a day with 100% bonus to get a total of 1000 diamonds). I chose to upgrade my MA to level 3 and to buy 2 premium expansions so far (I have also gained some diamonds from a wishing well, and purchased the expansions when they were 10% off).

It's possible to play entirely without them, but there are some uses of diamonds that are extremely beneficial over the life of the game.
 

Flame Knight

Guest
A spatial efficent resource gives a higher spatial efficiency, spatial resources lessens the need of spatial efficiency.
 

Sir Derf

Illusionist
My point, I hadn't regressed my musings on premium buildings far enough back to consider them a spatial resource, that they are both ways around what might be a fatal constraint in game progress.
 

Timneh

Artisan
Spending diamonds certainly can make things easier but it is not essential. One of the members of my FS got to end game without spending any money on the game although i suspect that they would have used the diamonds from the story quest line in some way, they never used wishing wells either for some reason. The game is playable without diamonds, it just takes longer.
 

tesla333

Scholar
I guess I just pictured a possible spatial limitation more directly with a spatial resource than a spatial efficiency resource.
I literally have no idea what you are talking about. I don't mean that to be sarcastic or condescending. I really have no clue what you just said. And I am not even sure its because English is my third language.
 
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Sir Derf

Illusionist
You can get diamonds without paying. I haven't paid, but I have

1) finished guest race quest lines
2) used Wishing Wells obtained from events.
3) Gained them as Crafting bonuses.

I have used them here and there, but in ways that I think aren't really required to progress.
 

Sir Derf

Illusionist
@tesla333 sorry can't quote you properly...

The game limits you in the amount of space you can use to place buildings.
Province Expansions obviously give you more space to place more buildings.
Premium Buildings, by being more efficient (more pop or culture for their size), directly give your more pop or culture. But they also essentially give your more space, as they take up less space than less efficient buildings giving the same stats.
 

Crowella

Soothsayer
One big difference between Premium expansions and magic residences/workshops is that a premium expansion will always be a 5x5 space and will retain its original value. Magic Residences and workshops need to be upgraded with blueprints or replaced as you progress. For me, this means that premium expansions have better long-term value than the magic buildings.
 

tesla333

Scholar
@tesla333 sorry can't quote you properly...

The game limits you in the amount of space you can use to place buildings.
Province Expansions obviously give you more space to place more buildings.
Premium Buildings, by being more efficient (more pop or culture for their size), directly give your more pop or culture. But they also essentially give your more space, as they take up less space than less efficient buildings giving the same stats.
Ahh, ok, I get it. Sorry, I was the one who messed up the quote.

I'm still not entirely sure where you are going with this but I daresay that diamonds are essential for at least the premium expansions. I will focus on one argument: I don't think new players (should) have the patience to get to the point where high level players are now.

Let me illustrate: I spent almost 2 hours today rearranging workshops in and out of dead space to produce 15 simple tools without forfeiting my toolboxes. Now, I have the advantage that I have players like @m4rt1n and @Flame Knight and others at my side who keep reminding me that this is a game of patience and planning and whatnot. They know, because they have been here since the beginning. They are also the people who catch me when my city falls behind in production because I dare not touch my factories because I MIGHT need those productions in a quest just around the corner.
What I am trying to say is: I was lucky. In the fellowship I am now I could survive because there are people who pick me up. As a newbie in an indifferent FS I would have left without the diamonds to buy premium expansions.

Looking back I can identify 3 points in the game I would have left if not for diamonds and a strong FS:

1. The first event: Events are insanely difficult for players Chapter 1 to Chapter 3. Even if you read the forum, the advice is often so arbitrary its seemingly useless. At that point you are aware that your most valuable commodity is space but you have no clue yet about what else is relevant (i.e. because everything so focused on resources you don't understand that deleting a factory can sometimes be beneficial)
2. Chapter 3/4: At this point the entire dynamic of the game changes. T3 factories are a completely different of magnitude in terms of population and culture needs, Half your city changes orientation. If I hadn't saved diamonds to pay for premium expansions I would have quit right then and there
3. The first guest race: Completely new mechanic. City changes orientation. Again. You have to deal with an entirely new set of buildings and requirements. By now you *think* you understand the game - just to realise that everything you thought you knew is not entirely accurate.

I know I rant. Long story short: I firmly believe that premium expansions are essential for players who started in the last 12 months or so. Premium expansions are diamond only. So, thats my TL;DR
 

Killiak

Shaman
yes but expansions keep getting more expensive while the buildings haven't for a number of chapter
Correct!

This is why premium buildings, like workshops, will obviously give you more "space per diamond spent" as the cost per expansion rises.

Eventually the question changes; do you want to bcome reliant on premium residences and then spend so much time on getting blueprints for/during the next chapter? My personal answer is 'nope', and will therefor not get many more premium buildings than I currently have.
 

tesla333

Scholar
Correct!

This is why premium buildings, like workshops, will obviously give you more "space per diamond spent" as the cost per expansion rises.
See, I didn't actually know that. I looked at them once, 6 months ago, saw their price increase from Chapter 1 to Chapter 8 and forgot about them again. Until right now I was not aware that magic residences retain a fixed cost Chapter 8 onward. (however, I admit that this is a different issue called "Inno being vague and unhelpful for new players")

Even with my new knowledge I would not go for magic workshops or residences UNTIL I am in the last chapter. Until then the added flexibility of more space is for me personally (!) more valuable than a building. Disclaimer: I am entirely aware that this is mathematically not justified. Don't give a damn. Much of my actual work is related to maths, I don't need a hobby requiring this as well
 

MinMax Gamer

Sorcerer
I know I rant. Long story short: I firmly believe that premium expansions are essential for players who started in the last 12 months or so. Premium expansions are diamond only. So, thats my TL;DR
Nice to have? Sure. Essential? No. I have started in the last 12 months, and didn't have any premium expansions until chapter 6-7 IIRC. At the end of Orcs I had 4 premium expansions, which was about 5% of total space. All these diamonds came from farming Wishing Wells, so I've paid exactly zero so far. If I decided to move a little slower, it would be trivial to run a city without this extra space. A lot of people stay in tech lock apparently by choice (to buff up their AWs). So you can certainly do without premium expansions.

And in later chapters with premium expansions you can run guest race settlements and large event shantytowns at the same time - which is clearly a luxury and not a necessity.