Anyone bored yet?

[DeletedUser1295]

@NecroDee: thank you for your elaborate answer!!!! Although I personaly disagree with some of your arguments, imho you also supplied quite some solid arguments as to how this game is experienced by advanced players atm ;-)

As a forum mod I cannot make any promises as to how soon the game will start to give more of a challenge to players.

However, I can truly state that the developers of Elvenar are very serious about taking into consideration all suggestions of players !

Alas, to implement new game features takes time... this also to determine as to how those will affect the game as a whole.

 

[DeletedUser227]

Sad to see Necrodee go, another great competitor on the rankings leaving makes me sad. You really hit the nail on the head as to why people are so frustrated with Elvenar at the moment.

It's been four months since dwarves and three months since Ancient Wonders. This doesn't seem like much objectively, but in the world of online browser games that is way too long. Part of the problem is likely that dwarves were released too soon. Nearly nobody was done the tech tree or upgrading their city when dwarves were released. If the developers had sat on the first guest race for 1 or 2 months while working on the next one, they could have relieved some of the fatigue players are feeling at the moment. Spread out the boredom and it's not as bad.

 

[DeletedUser]

Admittedly, I can agree with the majority of what NecroDee, kerykeion, Zodoax and the others have addressed. This game has rather rapidly dwindled to a halt in terms of interesting content (= stuff to do that does not feel like a chore after the hundredth time) and there really hasn't been that much content in general to begin with, never mind released after launch. Two updates last year (perhaps three if you count the official launch of the game itself and further language servers), is not something one can boast as being constantly updated. Perhaps the devs were referring to more bug fixes and new bugs being added on a regular basis? Oh wait, nope, that falls under maintenance... not content.

Due to the lack of things to do in the game, I rather quickly came to the realisation (within the first 2-3 weeks), that this game isn't for active players. One of the game designers mentioning in the latest February episode that he'd combine spells with 1-day productions just further proves that theory of mine. If you log into Elvenar more than three times a day, you're almost bound to get bored rather soon. Therefore I must conclude and agree with Elvenar's official release having been about one year too soon. I dare not say what my reaction was when I read that Elvenar's first update was the addition of fellowships, a couple months after it had already been officially released! With that feature being effectively the only social aspect of this game, well... Let's just say, I felt reminded of other online games I've played with lack of social interactivity and how quickly I quit those games. Guess you could say, that is indeed why I'm here on the forums. Just not enough options to socialise in-game. Unless I started to jump from one fellowship to the next just to see if they use the chat enough to my liking. Which also has the trade-off: If they're active enough to chat, they'll likely get bored of the game soon and possibly leave. Plus, such a fellowship will likely ask for daily support and activity, which is not what I want to sign up for. There are exceptions of course, however that is the problem. They are exceptions.

So you might ask yourself now, "why does Valerius continue to play this game?" The answer is quite simple really. Elvenar is not very time consuming to play compared to many other online city-builder games (ex. Anno Online) even in order to maintain a good position in the rankings if that's your desire (<300 on Winyandor). Polished visuals that just look stunning? Yeah, that's a key aspect Elvenar delivers upon. Mind you, I'm a player who prefers solid gameplay over graphics, but Elvenar is simply too casual a game to hold against any game with complex, solid gameplay (even if it's still under development). Thus I favour the graphics in this case, as better gameplay usually means more time necessary to play effectively.

To conclude:​

The negative bit: I'm bored with Elvenar every now and again, and I've even thought of quitting from time to time. I keep coming back though because every time I try out a different game, it's either the same issue of boredom, or the game becomes too time consuming.

The positive bit: Elvenar still has great potential, however I hope the devs manage to fulfil that at least partially while there are still enough players around to enjoy it. The simplicity of this game and the fact that I can play it when and how I like to a fairly large degree has me hooked on it. It's a beautiful looking little game and keeps me busy enough as long as I don't spend too much time in it.

P.S.: The community here in the forums is another good reason for me to stay. What's rather sad about this is that I do prefer the forums more than the game at times... Then again, is that really so sad? The forums will always remain the superior means of socialising after all.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry but completely agree with Necrodee.
One of our members has just quit the game too, due to lack of upgrades or revision plus no foreseeable added content.
Please do not include the joke about the magic building as added content.
No players ideas seem to be heeded or utilized. In fact I too think this game is seriously lacking any originality and to be perfectly fair colours my opinion of Innogames.
I have invested a lot of time playing this and cultivating a fellowship....for what? Time and energy that may well have been invested elsewhere.
It seems clear that the developers have lost interest in this game. No thought has gone into the end game or how to maintain further interest.
Unless something radical is done to improve the game imminently, I think Innogames reputation will be severely impacted.
Why would I try another game by Innogames after experiencing this one?

 

[DeletedUser227]

Sorry but completely agree with Necrodee.
One of our members has just quit the game too, due to lack of upgrades or revision plus no foreseeable added content.
Please do not include the joke about the magic building as added content.
No players ideas seem to be heeded or utilized. In fact I too think this game is seriously lacking any originality and to be perfectly fair colours my opinion of Innogames.
I have invested a lot of time playing this and cultivating a fellowship....for what? Time and energy that may well have been invested elsewhere.
It seems clear that the developers have lost interest in this game. No thought has gone into the end game or how to maintain further interest.
Unless something radical is done to improve the game imminently, I think Innogames reputation will be severely impacted.
Why would I try another game by Innogames after experiencing this one?

You nailed it at the end. This is the last time I try a game by Innogames. I'm still sticking around with the hope they add the next guest race soon, but I'll never give another of their games a chance.

 

[DeletedUser]

I feel like adding here, that the urge to quit increases as time passes. Initially, you might launch one or more further towns to try out different strategies, but as they progress, the chore of visiting becomes increasingly harrowing and you feel about as inclined to do it as you feel inclined to wash dishes. Then, as your towns develop, everything takes increasingly long to the point where it starts to feel like watching paint dry if you are not purchasing progress with diamonds, and even the forums are very inactive compared to other games. Most suggestions get hardly any feedback (if any) and you lose the desire to faff around with templates to pen an idea that no one then responds to I've said before that I don't think making everything take longer minus any actual things to do is good game design. Of course one could argue that we should play another game if we do not enjoy the slothful (ha) pace of this one, but on the other hand I'd bet that the people who are most active are also the ones that spend the most money, since spending money is what makes it progress faster. So not sure that's really such a fruitful proposal. One could also argue that the people who complain abut lack of things to do also complain about the things there are to do (NH), but the point is that a good game should have things to do that are not incredibly monotonous.

 

[Valnad]

You nailed it at the end. This is the last time I try a game by Innogames. I'm still sticking around with the hope they add the next guest race soon, but I'll never give another of their games a chance.

Hmm. See, this just seems strange to me. I played Tribal Wars when it was released (the first version), then I picked up on The-West and played that for a good two-three years and I even gave Grepolis and FOE a glance before I decided to move on again. The IG concept should be fairly recognizable by now, to anyone who has ever played one of their games: you pay to win. And then you get to do it all over again on a new server. And then history repeats itself, until you eventually get bored or you feel that the game has started to get a bit too expensive. Whoever spends the most time and pays for the must-have perks will be at the very top of the rankings.

I used to be there myself in the past, in a few of other IG franchises. But eventually I realized that the challenge and reward for "winning" never gave much satisfaction as the small pool of players who were willing to pay to stay in the game just never were big enough. Constantly adding new servers instead of new content isn't something new for Elvenar (although this game may have taken that concept to new heights). So why all the bitterness from seasoned IG players? Shouldn't we all know better by now?

Personally, I realized from day one what kind of game Elvenar was (and still is). It's a game for non-competitive players who dislikes PvP, or for competitive players who have other "main" games and wants a second priority game where they get to kill off a few minutes or half an hour without adding the social pressure from team members to do it on set time tables or spend X hours on a daily basis or otherwise get the boot.

Since I am myself a competitive player who likes a challenge, you can take a guess as to which category I belong to. And you can also take a guess as to how many diamonds I have purchased.

The problem, as I see it, is the lack of understanding from modern game developers as to what kind of long-term effects their short-term strategy for instant revenues through micro transactions will have on their reputation, the life-span of their games and the diversity and complexity of their games' player-driven communities. Because every game needs to have active, vocal and charismatic players who other players can be impressed by and who forces them to up the ante in order to stay competitive. And how can you have any of that if there is no competition aside from spending more time + VISA? Remove the strategy, the pitfalls, the choices that actually has some kind of consequence (and not just claims it without delivering the punch) and what you end up with is a dish that lacks flavour. A game of checkers instead of a chess table.

For starters, what about the meta-game? There is none, and that's not a problem limited to Elvenar, it is a plague spreading through the entire gaming industry. On the off-chance that you manage to find a game where there is actually an active and loyal and thriving community, chances are that it will be over and almost forgotten within 2-3 years or less. Finding a game where players create new content outside of the actual game (role-playing forums, wikis, third-party fan-based sites etc) is rare. Mod-friendly stand alone games is probably the only thing that comes to mind, but those are usually single-player and the community lies within the modding scene and not "inside" the game world itself.

But who am I trying to sell this nonsense to anyway... the developers have already made their choice and staked out the course and the players act as if they have all been conned. The level of dissapointment can probably be derived directly from the amount of cash each player has spent on the game. Smack in the middle I find myself amongst the group of over-aged nostalgic players who still remember how things used to be when there were more to games than graphical splendour and ranking ladders.

tl;dr version:

Try not to pay for a game when they are effectively still in beta. And try to consider every game as if they are in beta until you actually enjoy them so much that regardless of the state they're currently in, you would still like to make a charitable donation to the developers. Up until that point I can only advice you to reconsider your spending behaviour as chances are that sooner or later you will always end up feeling like you purchased a bag of poo... although it seemed like it was a bag of cookies at first glance.

 

[DeletedUser]

Going to keep this short, as it's late, but I must agree that you have raised some very good points there @Valnad.

Unfortunately the plague you've described that's hit the gaming industry is indeed very wide-spread and an issue with software development in general (in my opinion, though I'd even go as far as to say such is the case with any consumer product these days). Whether it's Microsoft trying to trump their own OS every few years and failing miserably at it because they keep on reinventing the wheel and just create more issues than they could ever fix, or monopolies like Google forcing game developers to abandon ship of their game engine (thinking of Unity here). The fact that the mass community of gamers keep wanting more and more content and new features in just about every game they play, but hate DLC content, which in terms of B2P games is the only real way to release new content for a game (with the exception of subscriptions), just answers your question right there: People want everything they possibly can for free. Due to the enormous amount of free games available that have flooded the 'market' (so-to-speak), many people don't pay anything for most of the games they play (speaking of the masses here, and I'm counting all those 99 cent apps as free, cause what's 99 cent for a game?), so they just move on as soon as they don't like what they see. Equally, developers put less and less time into their games before moving on to the next project.

It's indeed a sad trend, and an even worse truth. Luckily there are some (albeit few) gaming communities out there that are much better 'established' and long-lasting (Wurm Online comes to mind, as well as many other simulator games like FlightGear or Elite Dangerous to pick a more recent title). A common problem with games that focus on great gameplay is the required learning curve. That is what I believe most people tend to avoid these days and as a result there's not enough dedication towards any specific game to bother creating third party fansites, wikis, or even roleplaying forums. That's not to say there aren't a number of games out there with a very dedicated player-base. They're just... very few in comparison to the billions of alternatives.

So, yes, I'm guilty for supporting a game right here that isn't complex by any definition of the word and highly likely to follow suit with all the rest of the games of a 2-3 year (full development) lifetime. Would be nice to see Elvenar evolve into something much more than just a casual time-waster though, with a more dedicated community. I mean, I started a graphics thread here in the forums. That's a start isn't it?

Oh wait... You were speaking of a community in-game. Hmm....

 

[Valnad]

What I'm rooting for in my ring side is developers who dare to take a step back and try to develop games that the players actually want. Crowd funding indie games are often more interesting than the next billion dollar title, which is just likely to cause a major hype after the initial trailer and then fall short as soon as the beta is released (without dropping more names we certainly have a very recent example of that). But indie development teams are usually both inexperienced and ineffective and with the recent tax policy changes to crowd-funding coming up in EU the popularity of kickstarter and such might fade a bit.

You mentioned a few good examples of community-driven games and we could certainly come up with a few more titles that could be added to that list, but they are still nothing but a few shiny exceptions. I think that modern game developers have to accept that their players aren't just 14-15 year old single guys playing from a PC in their parents basement any more. And this does not only relate to the soft-porn-like outfits of female characters, it's a huge mystery why such a narrow(minded) audience is still setting the standard for pretty much the entire industry. Teens are usually not keen on paying for games (at all) and we can be fairly certain that the probability of such communities turning into troll feasts (battle arena games comes to mind) is much larger than what would be the case with a more diversified player base.

One way to describe how I feel about Elvenar is that IG seem to have tried to capitalise on the psychological behaviour of 8-9 year players from games like Candy Crash (buy diamonds for no apparent reason other than to save time) with the story-driven concept and desire of 20-40-year olds (fantasy theme) and at the same time neglected the competitive youngsters all together (14-15 year old who don't want to pay, but want to compete and have all the time in the world to do so).

The reality of the situation is that gamers come in all ages, shapes and forms these days and there should certainly be room for games that address that. I guess we could make a comparison to watching movies; of course it can be fun to watch a block-buster billion dollar movie sometimes with all the fancy effects packed into it... but more often than not you just do it out of curiosity. A year later and it's already forgotten. The flicks you actually remember and carry with you are the ones that had a great story and interesting characters that really sticked with you long after the screen went black.

It's the exact same thing with games. No matter how skilled your development team is, it can never reach the same potential as the enormous community of gamers who are eager to give ideas and feedback for free and longing for something else, something good, something remarkable and rememberable. And the argument about pricing and players not wanting to pay is not entirely true, is it? We've said the same thing about games, music and movies but all it took was a more modern way of distribution; Steam, Spotify, Netflix.

Gamers will surely pay as long as they can touch and feel the product first and see if it's something worth paying for. And in the meanwhile, we preoccupy ourselves with games like Elvenar. Not because they are the games we want to play, but because it happened to be the current stop of the grasshoppers before we fly on to find another host.

But we're dancing out of context again, so let's just end this post with a suggestion to the dev team:

Why not consider adding a minor monthly subscription fee that lets players choose if they want to pay a smaller amount per month and in return get a few decent perks, though nothing OP, and the subscription would be valid for all of your franchises. If a player started getting bored with one game, he or she might still continue to pay for the other games in your arsenal. If a relic and completely out-of-tune company like Ubisoft can consider to implement such a model, why not IG?

By doing that you could possibly increase both the revenue stream (long term) and the active player base and thus have the setting and funding necessary to complete (or rather: fix) your games instead of trying to squeeze every last euro out of potential players by adding new servers instead of new content.

Because the gaming world isn't the same as it used to be when Tribal Wars 1.0 was released and nor is the mature players attitude towards micro transactions.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's the exact same thing with games. No matter how skilled your development team is, it can never reach the same potential as the enormous community of gamers who are eager to give ideas and feedback for free and longing for something else, something good, something remarkable and rememberable.

Which is precisely why (as you mentioned in your previous post) mods for games are so increasingly popular (and always have been). There are even games out there that (in my opinion and without naming them), are really bad on their own/in the vanilla state, however become some of the greatest and timeless games just by adding a few mods. Guess I'm biased here as a Linux user, but open source projects often wield some of the best results (if you have the patience) due to the diversity of the respective community involved. Therefore:

And the argument about pricing and players not wanting to pay is not entirely true, is it? We've said the same thing about games, music and movies but all it took was a more modern way of distribution; Steam, Spotify, Netflix.

I'm rather divided on this subject. While I do have to admit that the best and most memorable games I've played have always been B2P games (many Indie one's in fact), they are an absolute minority compared to the total number of games I have played over the last 15 years (yeah, I'm a relatively young gamer). You're right that most of these were just intended as ways of passing time before the next great game was released. Elvenar wasn't meant to belong to that category though.

In fact, I had hoped Elvenar would be a nice casual game to play in those spare moments I have throughout the day without becoming too time consuming. In addition, it's one of those few games out there where you can be away for a very long period of time and just pick up where you last left off without losing out or having to start over because someone's destroyed everything you've built. I never expected Elvenar to be a great, fantastic game, but rather a good game that remains enjoyable for a long time. So far, Elvenar has delivered as I'm still here. Whether it continues to deliver, that remains to be seen. I'm a bit indecisive at the moment as to whether I like where the devs are going. There's still a lot of potential, and always will be for as long as the game is developed further of course.

Why not consider adding a minor monthly subscription fee that lets players choose if they want to pay a smaller amount per month and in return get a few decent perks, though nothing OP, and the subscription would be valid for all of your franchises. If a player started getting bored with one game, he or she might still continue to pay for the other games in your arsenal.

I do believe this has been proposed by Slotharingia somewhere. Another player also suggested for premium currency to be available across all of InnoGames' platforms for the very same reasoning you've described. The later of the two appears to carry a few issues with it though (communication-wise).

~ Valerius

 

[DeletedUser1224]

Well, you may have a point there, although I personally feel this game is not about 'just me as a player who has reached the end of tech tree' ^^^
For me, it is also about helping your fellows, with trade, advice etc. which keeps me busy everyday
Also the Ancient Wonders are imho a great addition for not getting bored!

Still, If you really feel bored in this game, there are many other (Inno)Games you may want to give a try

Are they just as badly beta tested and full of as many flaws? I don't think I could do that again - especially as a paying player. I expect certain things like a product that runs smoothly and operates as it's supposed to.

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

Just the idea of an old gammer living alone in a wood with his baby cat...

I think lot of people are annoying themself because they buy a lot of crystals to progress faster than the others and so are first at the end of each chapter and have to wait each new age... You cannot 'cheat' to go faster and after that say the game is too slow, that's really stupid

And compared to other games like Upjers ones were you are to buy stupid things, continuously spammed to do so, ejected from forum if you say somthing negative and have no support about the bugs, I think Inno's are the cleannest beautifull and efficient games actually... And I'm usually really the total opposite of a sucker

If you don't understand we are here flying in first class just try to play Undermaster for a while and ask something on it's forum... And when grand'ma Upjers stop pedaling in their garage to go peeing, you're even not able to load their games without a 'server time out' and she's a big beer drinker so...

 

[DeletedUser]

Just the idea of an old gammer living alone in a wood with his baby cat...

I think lot of people are annoying themself because they buy a lot of crystals to progress faster than the others and so are first at the end of each chapter and have to wait each new age... You cannot 'cheat' to go faster and after that say the game is too slow, that's really stupid

I know where you are coming from, but I don't think it applies to everyone. I have bought diamonds, but mostly because I don't believe in taking things for free I've bought a few culture buildings and expansions and I'm nowhere near the end of the tech tree. My point is, you log on and within 5 min max, even with 2 towns, there's nothing left to do besides clear a province once a day or less, or embark upon the incredibly boring neighbour visiting thing, which you are compelled to do at the same time every day and not when you happen to have time. The further you progress, the less reason there is to log on regularly, as everything takes forever.
I just think that at the end of the day, this causes people to drift away eventually.

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

I did like you, I bought some diamonds because I produced too much to use that with only 2 builders, and because I was short on place and because I liked the game so I wanted to sponsorize it... I'm talking about those who buy all the researches, I talked about a lot of diamonds