• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Ancient Wonders Allow AW Teleport

skelve

Spellcaster
Thanks for the update @herodite.

@CrazyWizard, in my opinion, it is not really allowing the players to cheat the game. As per my calculations, an ancient wonder level is about 50 - 100 units in the TS for me even at the 30th province. I have completed all research. So if I remove my level 11 Watchtower, for example, I lose about 100,000 culture. What do I gain? Max 1,100 x 5 fewer troops requirement to fight the 30th province. It is a decision I would like to make based on my priorities at that time of the game. Also, it will be useful to test it out by playing without the wonder for a few weeks and playing with it for a few weeks. I think it will add another interesting element for us to optimise our city design.
 

CrazyWizard

Illusionist
Thanks for the update @herodite.

@CrazyWizard, in my opinion, it is not really allowing the players to cheat the game. As per my calculations, an ancient wonder level is about 50 - 100 units in the TS for me even at the 30th province. I have completed all research. So if I remove my level 11 Watchtower, for example, I lose about 100,000 culture. What do I gain? Max 1,100 x 5 fewer troops requirement to fight the 30th province. It is a decision I would like to make based on my priorities at that time of the game. Also, it will be useful to test it out by playing without the wonder for a few weeks and playing with it for a few weeks. I think it will add another interesting element for us to optimise our city design.
It's not about a level 11 watchtower.

You can optimise your town (including that watchtower), but also consider wonders like golden abyss, mountain halls, warm springs (all pop, and some culture) maybe watchtower, throne of high men ect.
Once you have optimised your town using all these wonders that give pop and or culture, you can remove up to 150-200 wonderlevels from your town. this gives you a pretty nice tournament boost as now we are no longer talking about a few levels but a lot of levels.

Events? no problem, just use old event/spire crap and all those extra RRS we now get to accomplish the upgrade quests.
And the loss of culture can be easily negated by the bonus ensorcelled you aquire in the tournaments.

Who cares you have -600000 culture and -250000 population.

This is the most obvious example but people will eventually come up with other "tricks"

If people are worried about abuse, put a week (or a month for all I care) cooldown on them before they can be placed back.
Not only a pain to create, it doesn't really matter either in the above example, who after going trough all that trouble would want to do that every week?
 

CrazyWizard

Illusionist
Another example: you level up a tower of neighbourly help and you do 40-50 provinces in the tournament a week.
This gives you ~40-50 ensorcelled spells a week.

I collect these for many months (maybe you already have a giant stock)
I now place these spells (with my tower in power) for 100+ days onto 20 culture buildings.
Now teleport that wonder away for 100 days.

Since the spells are already applied I have 100 days of wonder magic without the drawback.

You could use the same trick for the supplies and production spells and there respective wonders
 

Gargon667

Necromancer
I still see no problem with that @CrazyWizard

So what? Teleports are still a valuable resource and you´ll need one every time you want to do this.

Sure you can TP the GA and MH, but you´ll loose the other effects along with the pop. I would loose 90% of my gold production if I TP the GA and the goods production boost is the main effect for all the people that like catering...

The Neighbour Help Lighthouse is sure bad enough to use a bonus like that :) I still probably wouldn´t bother building it...

So yes on occasion a bonus can be pulled from doing this, but it won´t ever be a mass phenomenon. TPs are too limited in number to use them on a weekly basis and there are very few people in a situation (plus the knowledge how to pull it off) to make it work.

it would finally allow AW upgrades other than the useful 11 (or whatever is considered useful) again and alleviate the ban on AW upgrades. Of course a better tourney formula would be preferable, but the chances for that happening any time soon are rather bleak. So this would be the next best option.
 

CrazyWizard

Illusionist
I still see no problem with that @CrazyWizard

So what? Teleports are still a valuable resource and you´ll need one every time you want to do this.

Sure you can TP the GA and MH, but you´ll loose the other effects along with the pop. I would loose 90% of my gold production if I TP the GA and the goods production boost is the main effect for all the people that like catering...

The Neighbour Help Lighthouse is sure bad enough to use a bonus like that :) I still probably wouldn´t bother building it...

So yes on occasion a bonus can be pulled from doing this, but it won´t ever be a mass phenomenon. TPs are too limited in number to use them on a weekly basis and there are very few people in a situation (plus the knowledge how to pull it off) to make it work.

it would finally allow AW upgrades other than the useful 11 (or whatever is considered useful) again and alleviate the ban on AW upgrades. Of course a better tourney formula would be preferable, but the chances for that happening any time soon are rather bleak. So this would be the next best option.
If GA is 90% of your gold production then your city has some serious balance issues.
You should adress those first, and then the rest start to make sense as well ;)

The neighbourly help tower is far from useless if you can use it properly, that think saved my spire butt more then once.
I even bought off 2 fights today for a mere 25m each lol, tyvm tower :)

And teleport spells arent that special, they are in no way to be considered "rare" I use plenty and my stock is still rising with well over 100 of them
edit:
1602953839363.png
plenty ;)
 

C-Nymph

Enchanter
Sure, but it ain't going to happen,
Fix the tournament, we see on many forums all kinds of suggestions to mitiligate the problems this change created.
Fix the tournaments and all those suggestions are fixed in an instant.
But they will not do that because in their opinion, there is nothing that needs a 'fix', as according to them, everything is "working as intended".
Them 'fixing' the tournament would again imply them admitting they made a mistake.
In that case they will never go with it, because then they directly admit, we up.
So a week after it's full live release they admit they are totally incompetent.
Giving us an opportunity to teleport AWs is not them admitting they made a mistake, as this was all "intended", but they can acknowledge that for some people the new system gives certain problems. And those problems could be sort of fixed (or at least made a little less terrible) if those people would be able to teleport AWs.
 

cwgiii

Necromancer
If you are only going to nay-say, and thus aren't going to be constructive to improve upon the suggestion, then just stop replying? Thanks.
I imagine that a huge majority of players are doing just that. Example on point: with absolutely no indication from Inno that they even see a problem with the tournament changes, many folks have stopped posting. Many have even left the game altogether. 'Tiss sad.
 

CrazyWizard

Illusionist
If you are only going to nay-say, and thus aren't going to be constructive to improve upon the suggestion, then just stop replying? Thanks.
For suggestions related induced by a broken change that creates an even bigger rabbit hole in the proces. why would I agree with that?
It's like being stuck in a hole and just digging it a bit deeper just to be sure.

This suggestion is like opening pandora's box, yet it's sympomatic treatment instead of treating the disease.
 

Killiak

Summoner
For suggestions related induced by a broken change that creates an even bigger rabbit hole in the proces. why would I agree with that?
It's like being stuck in a hole and just digging it a bit deeper just to be sure.

This suggestion is like opening pandora's box, yet it's sympomatic treatment instead of treating the disease.
If you are only going to nay-say, and thus aren't going to be constructive to improve upon the suggestion, then just stop replying? Thanks.
 

CrazyWizard

Illusionist
If you are only going to nay-say, and thus aren't going to be constructive to improve upon the suggestion, then just stop replying? Thanks.
Guess you want this really bad if you are going all out to tell me to be quiet for the second time now.
Just because you do not like my response doesn't mean there is a reason to demand a gag order.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Gargon667

Necromancer
If GA is 90% of your gold production then your city has some serious balance issues.
You should adress those first, and then the rest start to make sense as well ;)
How so? I find my city perfectly balanced. My GA covers all my gold needs in regular playing of the game. Need not bother with anything else.
Neighbour help/Residences/Selling of 5-day buildings is for the last day of spire or the tourney day.


And teleport spells arent that special, they are in no way to be considered "rare" I use plenty and my stock is still rising with well over 100 of them.
just because one person has more than 100 (hardly a huge amount btw) you can´t claim it not being rare. I would say that makes it close to the rarest resource in the game...

What else is there that people have less of than that? Blueprints come to mind. But then?
 

C-Nymph

Enchanter
This suggestion is like opening pandora's box, yet it's sympomatic treatment instead of treating the disease.
But the disease is not a disease according to Inno, as it is working as intended according to them. How many times does that need to be repeated? It's not going to change, it's here to stay. So we might as well start looking for other things to make Elvenar life a little bit easier now that this terrible change has been dubbed irreversible.
 

CrazyWizard

Illusionist
How so? I find my city perfectly balanced. My GA covers all my gold needs in regular playing of the game. Need not bother with anything else.
Neighbour help/Residences/Selling of 5-day buildings is for the last day of spire or the tourney day.




just because one person has more than 100 (hardly a huge amount btw) you can´t claim it not being rare. I would say that makes it close to the rarest resource in the game...

What else is there that people have less of than that? Blueprints come to mind. But then?
True but in the tower you can get up to ~3 on average per week? maybe even more? since I used quite a lot of them already
Of course not enough to jump in and out every wonder every week, but with the correct strategies more then plenty enough.

In the examples above you need about 6 of them every 6 months and 3 of them every ~3 months?
This is not a number any spire player with a decent play schould be thinking, damn thats a lot.
This could save up to 310 wonderlevels without the drawback.

If you are lucky you might even get 3 at once from 1 of the random chests.
In that regard, blueprints as pauly would make more sense, but would still allow the same strategy.
 

Killiak

Summoner
Guess you want this really bad if you are going all out to tell me to STFU for the second time now.
Just because you do not like my response doesn't mean there is a reason to demand a gag order.
This is the Suggestions forum. Not General Discussion.
Only saying "this won't work" is a pointless exercise, and doesn't help anyone, yourself included.

From Valania's Guide:
When discussing ideas, we should not discredit other people for their ideas. If you disagree with an idea, or if you believe it wouldn't be great to have the suggested feature in Elvenar, that is of course not a problem, but you should phrase your replies in a constructive way.

And since you clearly cannot do this, as evidenced by your every reply, I will ask you again;
If you are only going to nay-say, and thus aren't going to be constructive to improve upon the suggestion, then just stop replying?
 
Last edited:

Gargon667

Necromancer
True but in the tower you can get up to ~3 on average per week? maybe even more? since I used quite a lot of them already
Of course not enough to jump in and out every wonder every week, but with the correct strategies more then plenty enough.

In the examples above you need about 6 of them every 6 months and 3 of them every ~3 months?
This is not a number any spire player with a decent play schould be thinking, damn thats a lot.
This could save up to 310 wonderlevels without the drawback.

If you are lucky you might even get 3 at once from 1 of the random chests.
In that regard, blueprints as pauly would make more sense, but would still allow the same strategy.
I agreed with you from the start on that, it sure would be possible. What I am saying is that it is not going to be a super wide spread phenomenon, and it sure would not cause a huge issue in game balance.