• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Trader Add a Small Fee To Post Trades

Crowella

Soothsayer
There is a lively debate on many forums about the challenges posed by undesired cross-tier trades, possibly due to the excess of T3 caused by event buildings. In my experience, a select number of players post most of the undesired cross-tier trades, which then stay on my trade list until they expire, clogging my trader. I don't like this.

One solution would be to add a very small fee in coins to post a trade. Perhaps something along the lines of 0.1 percent of the MH coin capacity. So for example a new player with a MH coin capacity of 68000 would pay 68 coins per trade. This fee should be small enough that people are not discouraged from posting trades that they have a reasonable anticipation will be taken, but significant enough that there is some deterrent to posting trades that are exceedingly unlikely to be accepted.

Of course there are some problems with this, like making it more expensive for people to do pass-through trades, but if the fee is small I don't think it will substantially discourage people from posting trades they expect will be taken.

I know adding a fee (essentially a tax) is never popular, but I see this tax as sort of like a "sin" tax like the tax on cigarettes, because mainly it will affect those who post large numbers of trades that other people don't want.

Edit to add: A related idea, that could be used by itself or in combination, would be to shorten the time window during which trades are valid. I think 2 days should be the maximum time. I rarely have to wait more than a day or two for any reasonable trade I post to be accepted, and even if it did expire I could simply post it again.
 

Golddust Odin

Guest
because mainly it will affect those who post large numbers of trades that other people don't want.
You're imposing a tax on everyone who places a trade, how do you figure it will mainly affect the players in your target group?

No, thank you, I will not pay to post trades.

Better to suggest the developers place a cap on how many trades one player can place in any given 8 or 12 hour period.
 

Crowella

Soothsayer
It would be worth it to you to pay 1000 or 2000 coins to post trades for goods you need, I would guess. The reason it would affect the players who are posting numerous cross-tier trades more is because they're not getting anything for their coin most of the time. As I noted, most of my same-tier trades are picked up, so I would get value for the small fee I would pay. Since they would be paying and not getting anything since their trades are rarely taken, hopefully they would be discouraged from taking the trades.

I think having a shorter period for trades to be valid (such as 2 days instead of 7) or else a lower limit on the number of trades a player can post (perhaps 20 instead of 60) either instead of or in addition to the fee could be useful. In the case of being able to post a lower number of trades, that basically increases the opportunity cost for posting trades -- because if you post a trade that is unlikely to be taken it means you can't post a trade that you might actually get something for.

Overall I'm more and more enamored of having much shorter posting windows for trades (2 days). People could still post the cross-tier trades, but at least they'd have to redo it more often and they might eventually realize that they are rarely accepted.
 

Golddust Odin

Guest
It would be worth it to you to pay 1000 or 2000 coins to post trades for goods you need, I would guess.
Don't guess what something would be worth to me. You'll always be wrong. ;)
 

Timneh

Shaman
I was actually thinking that a charge for placing trades might help but i was thinking more along the lines of only cross tier trades would incur that charge (but that is probably because i dislike cross tier trades so much). The problem with charging coins is like @Lelanya says, from about the middle of the game players have more coins than they need, i spend several million coins a day in the wholesaler when i reach my storage capacity to get rid of them, i know a lot of people would say buy KP but i don't do that and that is a different argument.
 
here are 2 bad ideas...
add a very small fee in coins to post a trade
restricting trade is always a bad idea. there WILL be fewer options to choose. people are already complaining about not finding enough tier4,5,6. some people will tire of being the one who always pays the fee to post trades for their fellowship. i also think that simply adding a filter is the easiest answer. the trader already has those. some people might be upset about changing a system that's been in place for 4 years, especially if it's replaced w/ a system that adds restrictions and not options. also, think about how discouraging this will be for brand new players that don't have fellowships yet, have very limited resources, dont want to produce every good for themselves (an idea as bad as restricting trade), and don't have many trades they can accept because most of the amounts are too large for them. this would be even worse if a fee was charged per trade. people would post fewer but even larger trades.

I see this tax as sort of like a "sin" tax like the tax on cigarettes, because mainly it will affect those who post large numbers of trades that other people don't want
this will also effect those who accept trades too. most expenses are usually passed down to the consumers. also a sin tax seems like a very judgmental, hypocritical, and unfair way to take away freedoms. they are often a way for a majority to persecute and burden minorities. for example, the majority that doesn't smoke feels it's ok to overtax the minority that does smoke. alcohol kills far more young people than cigarettes ever will but isn't taxed nearly as heavily where i am. alcohol drinkers are in the majority. yet other sins, like gambling, porn, and over eating junk food aren't taxed much at all, unless you win a lot of money. i don't think many people are qualified to judge which sins should be taxed and which ones should be encouraged, like when a government advertises its lottery.
 

Pauly7

Shaman
How about a variation on the idea - apply the tax if a trade isn't taken after the 7 days it takes to be deleted?
This...
Overall I'm more and more enamored of having much shorter posting windows for trades (2 days).
And this... seem to be a good combination of ideas.

It these people really are posting pages of trades and just letting them expire 7 days later then why not make them expire after 2 days and just to take it one step further from @LazyTony 's idea, why not just make it so that people lose all those goods if the trades expire.
 
why not just make it so that people lose all those goods if the trades expire
again, this will just discourage trading and leave more players unhappy that they can't find the trades they need, especially those w/o a fellowship. 2 days isn't much time. not everyone is here 7 days per week. people will have to trade a lot more often, especially those of us who take the responsibility to make sure our whole fellowship's trading needs are taken care of. in some cases, chatrooms will be filled w/ people asking for this or that trade, especially since mobile players can't even use messages to ask for trades. comments in a chatroom can and will get quickly get buried.

not only that, but any more restrictions on trade will only increase the problem the game maker's already have w/ players in dead trading areas on the edge of the map or those surrounded by half-dead push accounts that won't get deleted or ever be fully active. i'm lucky enough to be in 2 decent neighborhoods but i really don't want to work even harder to supply fellows that were left all by themselves in Timbuktu because of the difficulties the game makers have of moving active players and because of any new ideas that will add restrictions on trading.

THE ANSWER TO THIS PROBLEM IS TO ADD ANOTHER FILTER TO THE TRADER. that will make this game easier to play. adding more restrictions, rules, fees, or whatever will make it more difficult for many people.
 

Pauly7

Shaman
not only that, but any more restrictions on trade will only increase the problem the game maker's already have w/ players in dead trading areas on the edge of the map or those surrounded by half-dead push accounts that won't get deleted or ever be fully active
Well in truth I do actually agree with you as I'm normally for restrictions getting broken down (i.e. trading ratios) rather than new ones being added, as I said in a different thread. I also don't personally have any issue with having to look at cross-tier trades even if I don't want them.

My solution was in response to people feeling that all the cross tier trades always stay there for 7 days and are never taken. In that scenario I wouldn't object if an incentive was given to not post trades that will never be accepted (I'm still not sure why anyone would be continuing to do this.)
THE ANSWER TO THIS PROBLEM IS TO ADD ANOTHER FILTER TO THE TRADER. that will make this game easier to play. adding more restrictions, rules, fees, or whatever will make it more difficult for many people.
Again, I agree and it is also what I said in the other thread. My personal preference is to remove the tiers, remove the trading star rating, let people trade whatever they want to then add intuitive filters so people could decide for themselves exactly what they want to see and don't want to see.
 

UlyssesBlue

Conjurer
How about a variation on the idea - apply the tax if a trade isn't taken after the 7 days it takes to be deleted?
I really like the idea of a fee only if the trade isn't taken before it expires. Perhaps you lose 10% of the goods you posted if the trade expires? Not only would this discourage unreasonable or excessive cross-tier trades, it would also discourage other types of unfair trades, such as 1 star or 0 star same-tier trades. I think this would address the problem without penalising those who are doing the right thing.
 

Timneh

Shaman
I have just looked in the trader and approx 90% of all the cross tier trades i see are offering T3 goods. That makes me think this ties in with the thread about event prizes causing a massive overload of T3 goods. The devs have been told about this so lets hope they listen and look at how they can solve the problem but I do not think there will be an easy or a fast solution though.
 

Golddust Odin

Guest
Perhaps something along the lines of 0.1 percent of the MH coin capacity. So for example a new player with a MH coin capacity of 68000 would pay 68 coins per trade.
68,000 x 0.1 = 6,800 not 68. That means that in my Beta city, I would be paying 1,360,000 per trade.

In order for someone with a MH capacity of 68,000 to only pay a fee of 68 coins, the rate would be .001. In my Beta city, I would be paying 13,600 coins per trade. Either way, it is so not worth it to me. It is free to post trades, and has been for 4 years. There is no reason to think that every player would be happy to suddenly have to pay for it. It could possibly help push some players contemplating leaving the game to skip on out the door.
 

Lelanya

Artisan
I have just looked in the trader and approx 90% of all the cross tier trades i see are offering T3 goods. That makes me think this ties in with the thread about event prizes causing a massive overload of T3 goods. The devs have been told about this so lets hope they listen and look at how they can solve the problem but I do not think there will be an easy or a fast solution though.
I think you are right about the solution being a long one,!
 

Crowella

Soothsayer
68,000 x 0.1 = 6,800 not 68. That means that in my Beta city, I would be paying 1,360,000 per trade.

In order for someone with a MH capacity of 68,000 to only pay a fee of 68 coins, the rate would be .001. In my Beta city, I would be paying 13,600 coins per trade. Either way, it is so not worth it to me. It is free to post trades, and has been for 4 years. There is no reason to think that every player would be happy to suddenly have to pay for it. It could possibly help push some players contemplating leaving the game to skip on out the door.
Read my message again. I said 0.1 PERCENT. 0.1 percent is equal to 0.001.

I may not be Soggy, but I can haz maths.
 
don't forget that at least half of the problem is from all of the tier 4,5, and 6 goods and not just cross tier trading.
adding a filter for those would probably help more than 1 to eliminate cross tier trades.