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No Spire mystery chests

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
I'm not sure it is. That is the point I was trying to get over.
ps my keyboard is dieing, lease excuse occasional missig letters

They could make one or more mystery chests per Spire guaranteed and the rest based on RNG. At this moment, the range is between 0 and 48 (4 * 12 chances of getting a mystery chest per Spire). What they can do is to make bosses have a 100% chance of getting a mystery chest. When someone hits an extreme case of 0 or 48 chests, it would take very long time to hit average, making them officially getting different treatment than the majority of the players. When you narrow the range to let's say between 3 and 24, it's more likely that everyone will hit average.
Another solution is to make the same number of mystery chests guaranteed for all player and use the RNG only for the type of prize you get out of them. That's how the game uses RNG most of the time. This makes hitting the average very likely as usually there's not more that 5? different prizes you can get. Not 48 different scenarios that can happen.
PS Please correct me if my numbers are wrong, I haven't 100% checked them.
 

Stucon

Illusionist
if there is a 5% chance of getting a chest on each ncounter, the chances of getting to the top with zero chests is 8.5%. Not that rare an event (GT 5% is significant).
Aren't numbers fun?
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
if there is a 5% chance of getting a chest on each ncounter, the chances of getting to the top with zero chests is 8.5%. Not that rare an event (GT 5% is significant).
Aren't numbers fun?

Looks like that the minority is even bigger than I thought, more reasons to change it.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Looks like that the minority is even bigger than I thought, more reasons to change it.
Off course not, you do not play just 1 spire. it's like throwng 1 dice it lands on a 1, that sucks so now the dice need to change.
How fun would any boardgame be if you always get a boring 7.

The variation of get some, get all and anything in between is what makes a game fun.
Get monopoly, 1 player get around, the other one gets all the bad gards, low dice, jail, go back to ect.
Later the tables turn and the other player gets the upper hand.

There is no game without RNG, because RNG is what makes a game a game.
Even in chess the RNG is your opponent skilllevel and his or her moves.

RNG sucks when it's agains you, but makes things fun and interesting when it ain't
 

Turing

Bard
Looks like that the minority is even bigger than I thought, more reasons to change it.

I don't think the 5% in the post you replied to is correct. I think it's 10%, and 20% at mini-bosses and 30% at the 3 big bosses. Which leaves the odds of a blank week at around 0.1% as someone quoted earlier.

Assuming so, I ran a quick simulation of 100 000 players over the course of a year. Over a year it's possible to obtain somewhere between 0 and 2496 bonus chests. This is a chart of the number of players, out of 100 000, obtaining each possible number of chests:
SpireSIM.PNG

The blue part are players who had one or more weeks with no chests.

As you can see over a year it does average out to a large extent - no-one is getting many times more chests than someone else.
Players who have a blank week aren't over the course of a year noticeably worse off than other players
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
We're starting to go in circles here a bit and repeating issues/views that we've already discussed. I understand that we might not ever agree and that's fine but I will not change my view on extreme case of RNG. For the game to be fair and all players to get the same treatment, RNG can't allow for extreme cases that can make it impossible for some players to get an overall same treatment as others within a realistic time frame. I understand that it's a minority of players but no minorities should get ignored for the majority to get treated better. As I said I do not support gambling.
 

OldHag

Necromancer
As I posted earlier, there have been many weeks when I got zero chests.....not the end of the world.....but that can then be followed by having a great run in the spire when I may get 5, 6 or 7 chests......Some weeks, I'll only get blue chests, another time I'll get a mix of blue, with maybe 1 or 2 gold chests, then I'll get weeks when I win a purple chest or two......so I'd say it all works out in the end.
On weeks when I win a magic house or magic workshop, I tend not to win so many chests, but I don't care, cos I just won a magic workshop, which is a grand prize, in my eyes, so I can't complain if I don't win a mix of chests on top of that too.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
We're starting to go in circles here a bit and repeating issues/views that we've already discussed. I understand that we might not ever agree and that's fine but I will not change my view on extreme case of RNG. For the game to be fair and all players to get the same treatment, RNG can't allow for extreme cases that can make it impossible for some players to get an overall same treatment as others within a realistic time frame. I understand that it's a minority of players but no minorities should get ignored for the majority to get treated better. As I said I do not support gambling.
Ah the gamble argument,
So a game like Ludo is also gambling?
 

Gargon667

Mentor
We're starting to go in circles here a bit and repeating issues/views that we've already discussed. I understand that we might not ever agree and that's fine but I will not change my view on extreme case of RNG. For the game to be fair and all players to get the same treatment, RNG can't allow for extreme cases that can make it impossible for some players to get an overall same treatment as others within a realistic time frame. I understand that it's a minority of players but no minorities should get ignored for the majority to get treated better. As I said I do not support gambling.

RNG IS fair to everybody, because everybody has exactly the same chance to win.

There is no extreme 0 cases, because the spire guarantees oodles of rewards to everybody who plays, and not even finishes the spire. It takes about 3 seconds to finish an autofight on encounter 1 stage 1 and you already have a 100% guarantee to go away with a reward.
The only thing you possibly can (and very rarely do) get zero of is bonus chests. The name says it all they are a BONUS. As in on top of all the other rewards you are already getting.
The spire is already by far the most rewarding part of the game, nowhere else can you get such hich quality rewards in such high quantities as there and now on top of it Inno has added a high chance to get a sip of clarity which is another 250 diamonds on top of everything else.

It boggles my mind how people can keep asking for more stuff in the place that already is the best at handing out free stuff. I would understand if people wanted more rewards from places where rewards are garbage, but the spire??? It makes no sense...
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
It boggles my mind how people can keep asking for more stuff in the place that already is the best at handing out free stuff. I would understand if people wanted more rewards from places where rewards are garbage, but the spire??? It makes no sense...

I'm asking for fairness not more prizes. Is that really too much to ask? Is it really that hard to understand after so many posts?
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I'm asking for fairness not more prizes. Is that really too much to ask? Is it really that hard to understand after so many posts?

Not too much too ask. It already is reality.

The spire already is perfectly fair, everybody has the same chance to win.

And the spire already guarantees tons of rewards for everybody who participates. In more than one way.

There is no 0 case. Nobody who participates in the spire even the tiniest little bit can leave the spire without rewards.

Everything you ask for is already there, so asking for more is just that. Asking for even more.
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
Not too much too ask. It already is reality.

The spire already is perfectly fair, everybody has the same chance to win.

And the spire already guarantees tons of rewards for everybody who participates. In more than one way.

There is no 0 case. Nobody who participates in the spire even the tiniest little bit can leave the spire without rewards.

Everything you ask for is already there, so asking for more is just that. Asking for even more.

Again. Everybody does have a same chance to win but they don't win the same. Ask people that go to casino.

I understand that you won't let it go and I think that we've covered it all so this is it from me, I don't really want to step down to personal attacks or ridiculing someone.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Again. Everybody does have a same chance to win but they don't win the same. Ask people that go to casino.

I understand that you won't let it go and I think that we've covered it all so this is it from me, I don't really want to step down to personal attacks or ridiculing someone.

If everybody in a casino won the same, nobody would win, well except the house of course... You go in with 10 bucks, the house takes 1 and you go back out with 9 bucks. So go ask them if they want a chance to win or rather be guaranteed to lose.
Of course this suggestion would solve the problem of gambling addiction :)

But this old gambling argument never works, it simply does not apply here at all. In the spire you are guaranteed to win! You have zero chance of losing. The only question is what and how much you win. And if everybody won exactly the same (which is the only alternative to not winning the same) it would be horribly boring and solve the problem of elvenar addiction :D
At least that is my opinion.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
There are no games without RNG, because without RNG it's not a game.
The only "games" without (or little) RNG are are called simulators. (microsoft flight simulator, simcity, cities skylines ect)
 

Turing

Bard
There are no games without RNG, because without RNG it's not a game.

Chess?

The only "games" without (or little) RNG are are called simulators. (microsoft flight simulator, simcity, cities skylines ect)
Conversely a flight sim should have considerable randomness in small scale weather effects. And IIRC sim city type games had plenty of random events
 

OldHag

Necromancer
Well I won a Genie this week, from the final boss, so no complaints here, only woohoos' :)
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Chess?


Conversely a flight sim should have considerable randomness in small scale weather effects. And IIRC sim city type games had plenty of random events
Your opponent is the RNG, there are no fixed plays. your moved depends on your opponent and the boardvieuw.
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
So this week I got four dwarven armorers and that has never happened to me before. That's three weeks after getting no mystery chests at all. The odds of this happening are quite low so it's possible that they are tweeking RNG behind the scene to make up for disasters. Great :)
 

Pauly7

Magus
So this week I got four dwarven armorers and that has never happened to me before. That's three weeks after getting no mystery chests at all. The odds of this happening are quite low so it's possible that they are tweeking RNG behind the scene to make up for disasters. Great :)
They do tweak certain things, but more likely you just had an incredibly unlucky week one week, then an incredibly lucky week on another. These things can happen and the extremes are always possible. As we have a published likelihood of winning a mystery chest and published likelihoods of winning DAs at any given juncture, then it is likely that those things remain fixed.
 
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