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Battle Improving battle: a terrain heads-up?

Alamain

Novice
Hi,

Last time I asked, it was clear that the Inno team isn't planning to make manual battle available on the app. This is a shame, but I get it.

Here's an alternative suggestion. What about an icon on the troop selection page that gives info on the battle terrain? Currently this can only be gained on the browser version by sending in a scout and surrendering, which is very clunky. A mini-map icon would introduce an additional element of real skill in the selection and placement of troops, even in auto-fight.

I would welcome your thoughts on this.

Alamain
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Nice idea! Not sure how it would tecnically work on a small phone screen though.
But it sure would help a lot with auto-fighting on the phone if they could make work :)
For manual battles on the PC it would also make things a bit quicker...
 

Turing

Bard
I also think it would be a huge improvement, including in the browser version.

It's not just faster in the browser, at the moment if the opponent includes Mist Walkers (which is the case in the current tourney for virtually all awkward fights that I might want to scout first) then the player will lose troops doing the scout. It can be painful losing 1/3 or more of a (large) squad just to have a look at the map
 

Pauly7

Magus
It would be a good improvement to have. It has also been suggested more than once. In fact on one occasion someone even made diagrams of exactly what it would like like and how it would all fit on a phone screen... but still no response on the matter. It actually surprises me because usually their focus is trying to make everything on the app the same or better than the PC version. I still think they're trying to phase out the browser game.
 

Gannet

Seeker
Personally i would like a "tactics" option (like in homm) where not only you can preview the battlefield but also arrange your troops in the order you want, right now i have to restart almost every fight in order to first get battlefield info
 

SkyRider99

Mentor
The 5 slots in the squad selection window from the troops POV are center, left inner flank, right inner flank, left outer flank, right outer flank.

Awesome. I didn't know that...along with all the other things I don't know I suppose. I have been using 'autofight' for years, and so haven't noticed the actual deployment on the field.

I thought the squad selection was the same as the battlefield deployment. i.e. left-to-right. If what you're saying is right Ruprecht, which I am not disputing, then that would go a long way towards explaining why I lose troops that should normally be winning more easily.

Is the enemy squad deployment the same, from the enemy troops POV?
 

Morning Town

Alchemist
Awesome. I didn't know that...along with all the other things I don't know I suppose. I have been using 'autofight' for years, and so haven't noticed the actual deployment on the field.

I thought the squad selection was the same as the battlefield deployment. i.e. left-to-right. If what you're saying is right Ruprecht, which I am not disputing, then that would go a long way towards explaining why I lose troops that should normally be winning more easily.

Is the enemy squad deployment the same, from the enemy troops POV?

Yes SkyRider99,

It's covered in wiki, battle, battlefield [see image.. hopefully :)]
though there is some "swopping of own troops" in Spire in 2n &/or 3rd stage fight (system generated no way to control)
1634484114377.png
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Is the enemy squad deployment the same, from the enemy troops POV?

yes it is, so even though the order is weird on the map (top to bottom: 4,2,1,3,5) the units you place in 1 will be positioned opposite enemy 1 and so on. So that part isn´t really the problem.

What I find more important is: The forward position for us is 2 and 3, while it is 1,4,5 for the enemy. This is important for especially units with a total range of 7 (walk+shoot). In round 1 units in forward can potentially hit 3 enemies, while units in backward position can only hit 1 potential enemy.
This is something that can be exploited also in auto-fight.

But even though units are placed facing off with another, it doesn´t mean that they will automatically hit the one directly opposite. Instead units choose their opponents based on initiative (and other factors) out of the pool of units they can possibly reach.

As mentioned above a total range 7 unit in forward position has 3 potential enemies, plus the ones that walk into their range before they take their turn. A unit with range more than 7 will have even more choice.
Units with low initiative also have more choice, because more enemies can potentially walk into range before they go.
If you consider this you can "force" certain units to hit an intended target. And you can explain also often why you loose a fight with mixed troops, if you do not consider this.
 

Ruprecht

Adventurer
though there is some "swopping of own troops" in Spire in 2n &/or 3rd stage fight (system generated no way to control)
It reorders your troops with those that have more damage in the center. I'd prefer the stronger troops to be centered with damaged ones to the flanks.
 

Stucon

Illusionist
It reorders your troops with those that have more damage in the center. I'd prefer the stronger troops to be centered with damaged ones to the flanks.
Are you certain about this. I only ask as I have seen about 5(?) different explanations of the re=ordering.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Are you certain about this. I only ask as I have seen about 5(?) different explanations of the re=ordering.

The reordering is quite simple: In wave 2 your heroes will be sorted backwards, 1 goes in 5, 2 in 4, 3 stays where it is, 4 goes in 2 and 5 in 1.
If there is a wave 3 it is the same as wave 1 again. Nothing much to it.
Try it out yourself if you don´t believe it :) Not difficult to test!
 

MinervaOz

Enchanter
I have tested it. I did not get the same results as you.
Can you share your results? I fight manually almost all the time in the Spire and I've never seen anything other than what @Gargon667 describes. At least, as far as different troop types are concerned. Mostly I found it too hard to keep track of troops of the same type, but I did notice in one encounter that they didn't move as expected - eg, mortars in positions 2 and 5 in the 1st wave moved to positions 1 and 4 in the 2nd wave, not 4 and 1. (This is described in the original thread on the topic.) So it's possible that damage does have a role, but I came to the conclusion this wasn't worth worrying about as you have limited control over which unit is attacked.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I have tested it. I did not get the same results as you.

Interesting, maybe we should all go and take some screenshots next time we have waves (and obviously use 5 unique troops rather than 5 of the same)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I have tested it. I did not get the same results as you.

One more thought: You did take the positioning on screen into account? As I said it changes the numbers, not the screen positions upside down:

Lets say I use 5 different units: A,B,C,D,E in that order in wave one,

On screen that would be:

D
B
A
C
E

Wave two would be reverse E,D,C,B,A which on the screen turns to:

B
D
E
C
A


Either way the point is: position 3 (unit C) stays always where it is. While 1 and 5 switch positions and 2 and 4 also switch positions.
I have never seen any other behaviour, but I have to admit I haven´t really been paying attention anymore in a long time now.
 
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