• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

Julian

Sorcerer
How can players be punished for premium expansions.
We don't know the precise algorithm behind the new system. It may only be ordinary expansions that are taken into account. Secondly, Inno say that the disadvantage to the tournament won't be as big as the advantage of having the expansion (or whatever) in the first place. You could put a bonus armoury or something on it. Thus, players in later chapters should still be able to advance further than those in earlier chapters. Obviously, if you have an expansion and leave it blank, you would be disadvantaged, but that's your choice.
 

Errandil

Conjurer
We don't know the precise algorithm behind the new system. It may only be ordinary expansions that are taken into account. Secondly, Inno say that the disadvantage to the tournament won't be as big as the advantage of having the expansion (or whatever) in the first place. You could put a bonus armoury or something on it. Thus, players in later chapters should still be able to advance further than those in earlier chapters. Obviously, if you have an expansion and leave it blank, you would be disadvantaged, but that's your choice.
We can make an educated guess from the spire experience that all this would result in unreasonable inflation of the tournament costs for the advanced players. Besides they are shooting themselves in the foot by punishing paying but more casual players who buy an expansion simply because they want to fit a beautiful event building or something like that. Forcing players to make a cost-benefit analysis before spending money on the game isn't the best tactics to sell stuff if you ask me.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
Besides they are shooting themselves in the foot by punishing paying but more casual players who buy an expansion simply because they want to fit a beautiful event building or something like that. Forcing players to make a cost-benefit analysis before spending money on the game isn't the best tactics to sell stuff if you ask me.
Those players would be buying things just like before ;) If they're not doing cost-benefit analysis, I am pretty sure they are also not reverse engineering SS formulas or even look at them. The true impacts of many actions in the game (from Spire inputs to optional SSUs now) is not something that they see or care about. Most of the stuff that we're discussing on these forums are really only for the fairly small hardcore group of players. I highly doubt that these are representative of Elvenar's player base in general.

That's the hard part of being a (relatively) advanced player in this game. You know that you're in the tiny minority, so most of the real changes are not exactly directed at you (well, not positive at least), and you know that losing even all of players like that won't really be a significant concern for Inno. Basically, as a group, we have very little leverage outside of being vocal in the forums, and perhaps some halo effect in our FS.
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
We don't know the precise algorithm behind the new system. It may only be ordinary expansions that are taken into account. Secondly, Inno say that the disadvantage to the tournament won't be as big as the advantage of having the expansion (or whatever) in the first place. You could put a bonus armoury or something on it. Thus, players in later chapters should still be able to advance further than those in earlier chapters. Obviously, if you have an expansion and leave it blank, you would be disadvantaged, but that's your choice.
Bonus armories don't help you train troops any faster. You only need enough armories to keep your training queue overnight while you sleep or while you're at work etc and you can be training 24/7.

I've bought loads of premium expansions and frankly have a ton of space I have nothing to fill with unless I'm doing a guest race and that doesn't help the tournament. I'm not doing a guest race currently so my space is wasted.

I wouldn't have paid for the premium expansions if I'd have thought I'd be punished for doing so. I certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone that they do so.

Premium expansions shouldn't count to the formula at all. It's ludicrous to pay a premium currency to make your game harder!
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
We don't know the precise algorithm behind the new system. It may only be ordinary expansions that are taken into account. Secondly, Inno say that the disadvantage to the tournament won't be as big as the advantage of having the expansion (or whatever) in the first place. You could put a bonus armoury or something on it. Thus, players in later chapters should still be able to advance further than those in earlier chapters. Obviously, if you have an expansion and leave it blank, you would be disadvantaged, but that's your choice.

It took many, many many months before the algorithm behind the spire became known. untill them nobody complained for the simple fact they did not have the knowledge why it was so hard. not many suspected that premium expansions actuelly counted and blamed it sole on wonderlevels.

The video states clearly that the same factors that are introduced in the spire formula are also going to be used in the tournaments now.
It's therefore not that farfetched to suspect the same thing will happen in the tournaments.

If you want to be heared and have even the slightest change for change your should voice your opinion while the feature is still in development, and not 6 months after the fact, because then it again takes years before we seen another iteration and untill that time you are stuck with that what you got while you did not spreak up.

btw. I am really appalled that not long ago whern the spire came out, they told us they had no intention to change the tournament when we feared they would implement a similar feature tot he spire at the tournamaments, it's not even that long ago and here it is, the thing many of us feared the most.
 

Thagdal

Sorcerer
I'd argue that having exactly the same approach each week (which will be just "I need a good stock of everything") will be much more tedious.

"To make Catering worth considering, we will (roughly) halve the costs for it, meaning you'll need fewer Goods to complete a Province."

I dont see this as tedious...just normal production cycles and trading.


I've bought loads of premium expansions and frankly have a ton of space I have nothing to fill with unless I'm doing a guest race and that doesn't help the tournament. I'm not doing a guest race currently so my space is wasted.

I wouldn't have paid for the premium expansions if I'd have thought I'd be punished for doing so. I certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone that they do so.

Premium expansions shouldn't count to the formula at all. It's ludicrous to pay a premium currency to make your game harder!

Wow im getting a bad case of Deja vu here...didnt you make the same argument about the premium workshops when they didnt help with the production events. you obviously didnt learn your lesson.:p Inno giveth and then they taketh away...;)
 

Errandil

Conjurer
That's the hard part of being a (relatively) advanced player in this game. You know that you're in the tiny minority, so most of the real changes are not exactly directed at you (well, not positive at least), and you know that losing even all of players like that won't really be a significant concern for Inno. Basically, as a group, we have very little leverage outside of being vocal in the forums, and perhaps some halo effect in our FS.
Sure, but as the real world teaches us, being a vocal minority can sometimes change how the things go, to better or to worse. In this particular case if the fact that the premium expansions may cause issues would be widely discussed, especially on the FB, it may change something. I'm not holding my breath, but it's really better to try voicing concerns before this implemented.


Wow im getting a bad case of Deja vu here...didnt you make the same argument about the premium workshops when they didnt help with the production events. you obviously didnt learn your lesson.:p Inno giveth and then they taketh away...;)
And by the way it worked and magic workshops were counted as the two usual ones at the event.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
That's the hard part of being a (relatively) advanced player in this game. You know that you're in the tiny minority, so most of the real changes are not exactly directed at you (well, not positive at least), and you know that losing even all of players like that won't really be a significant concern for Inno. Basically, as a group, we have very little leverage outside of being vocal in the forums, and perhaps some halo effect in our FS.

You are aware that a tiny minority is funding the largest part of the game?
That minority consist of 2 types of players, 1 just doesnt care about the tournaments and another portion is willing to spend money for "being better"

That fraction of a minority is still a large portion of there paying support, and there is 1 thing they seem to be very vunerable at, tell them you screw up your paying players and unmovable walls split apart.

Look at errandil's example, that part was fixed very fast, but it was related to there income.

If no money is concerned then you are in general pretty correct.
 

m4rt1n

Adept
Personally I am looking forward to the tournament changes, remember currently to 10 chest all you need is 25 players active to do 6 rounds complete or 4 rounds to province 8. Looking those will be easier than currently and the difficulty will come, going for the extra score and bonus chests. I wait and watch as for me personally it will involve a lot less clicking and knowledge built up over many years to place the correct troops into battle.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
You are aware that a tiny minority is funding the largest part of the game?
That's right, I think we pretty much agree on that. Just as you said, a minority of big spenders and a minority of advanced players are not one and the same, not by a long shot. There are plenty of advanced players who spend nothing or very little, and there are plenty of big spenders who just don't care about stats at all, they just like big shiny buildings, sometimes seeing big ranking numbers without developing much of a strategy etc. While there are certainly paying players on the forums, and some of them are probably even relatively big, I doubt that all forum population adds to much in terms of total revenue. I don't have the numbers so certainly can be wrong here. But just the total number of active forum participants leads me to believe that this whole group is just not as important to Inno as long as we do not represent their bread and butter paying customer. As that's clearly not me, I don't know how they look like, exactly ;)

And as I mentioned before, Inno probably cares more about people who can potentially pay in the future, rather than those who paid - even if a lot - in the past.
 

AstralSoul

Illusionist
Well, lets see the mess, I am not the complaining type, quite the contrary. But I worked very hard on my AW (almost 36K pts in S&Ds) and now they are going to bite my back?

I like the extra treasure thing, and to save time, BUT... four battles in one province? At once?

That will be troop sync, as the game will slam you with bad terrain, you will get stuck, and lose 40 squads in one blow...

Goodbye 8k (current) average tournament points...

Well, I auto-fought 95% of the tournament battles and most spire (sometimes all) every week, so I have a big load of RSS... let's see how LOW truly is for catering.

Edit: And also bought a lot of premium expansions... but well, let's see how it is before going all workers and paranoid, we will manage... I think...
 
Last edited:

Hekata

Artisan
The new tournament system is currently running on beta and it seems the increase of SS is 12% with each province and also 12% for each round. Most players can't go pass province 20. I'm pretty sure they will change this but if they don't yaay for all the free time I'm getting back by not doing tournaments or at least not doing more than 10 provinces :D

Edit: for those who want the see the full table done by a very reliable Beta player: https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tournament-changes-post-release.15204/post-87361
 
Last edited:

Errandil

Conjurer
The new tournament system is currently running on beta and it seems the increase of SS is 12% with each province and also 12% for each round. Most players can't go pass province 20. I'm pretty sure they will change this but if they don't yaay for all the free time I'm getting back by not doing tournaments or at least not doing more than 10 provinces :D
Well, some players asked for the reduce in clicks... Seriously though, as it is now on beta I can't express my feelings without the post getting removed. May we just forget all this and go back to the thousands clicks a week please?
 

Hekata

Artisan
Well, some players asked for the reduce in clicks... Seriously though, as it is now on beta I can't express my feelings without the post getting removed. May we just forget all this and go back to the thousands clicks a week please?
But why did the reduced number of clicks have to lead to increased difficulty? I think that, as many times before, they just used that request made by players to make the changes they wanted to make.
 

Pauly7

Magus
No problems to 7 provinces, but there were a couple of unfavourable troop combinations. If you get unlucky with those, because now it's more of a lottery, then it could bite you hard.
 

Hekata

Artisan
No problems to 7 provinces, but there were a couple of unfavourable troop combinations. If you get unlucky with those, because now it's more of a lottery, then it could bite you hard.
If I remember correctly the colour coded figures Inno gave us, the fist 8 provinces fall under the either easier than before or same difficulty as before category and it's from province 9 that it gets harder. So I guess that those who used to do less than 10 provinces will like the changes and those who used to do more won't.
 

Pauly7

Magus
My test will be whether going through 6 rounds of 7 provinces will be easy, as it should be, but it's starting to look like it won't be.

The catering costs are a concern as people are reporting a cost of 3,400 Orcs to cater the first province of the first round. Forget the other goods required - these orc requirements could make it impossible for people to cater.
 

Hekata

Artisan
@Pauly7 That's a very useful test as one of the players there said that you'd only get 1380 points in the easy zone.

The requirements of orcs required everywhere are ridiculously high. They should rebalance the armouries to give at least the double they are producing now or give us an extraordinary orc producers a the main prize in one of the upcoming events.
 
Top