DeletedUser
Guest
@Dizzy Lizzie Thanks for the help, appreciated 
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Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)
- Thread starter Muf-Muf
- Start date
Errandil
Conjurer
The owners of magic workshops are still at disadvantage. They specifically payed money to have less workshops. And the fewer workshops you have, the harder this event gets. And because of the higher population requirements of magic workshops it's harder for them to build additional workshops for the event. Again because they payed money to make the game easier. I don't see how it's a good marketing strategy to put players at disadvantage because they support the game.
DeletedUser1874
Guest
Clearly if the quests are based on the number of items produced as opposed to the number of supplies gathered, players with magic workshops, who payed money in order to have less workshops, will be ad at disadvantage because with less workshop they'll be able to do less pick ups. I struggle to understand how this issue is not evident and crystal-clear.
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DeletedUser6357
Guest
I sold two Level 33 residences today so I can turn two workshops.
DeletedUser7526
Guest
@Dizzy Lizzie
Dear Dizzy, here the explanation
A regular workshop level 26 (as required for a constructs end gamer) needs 2165 population. A magic workshop at constructs takes 5600 population. So instead of 1 magic, I can have 2.58 regular workshops. Meaning I can make 2.58 more toolbox if I hadn’t bought 1 magic workshop.
In other words, people who have bought 2 of Inno's magic workshops can make 2 toolboxes with the population restraint, whereas non-buyers can fulfil the 5 tool box quest with the same population. Sad, isn't it.
DeletedUser8409
Guest
The issue is that Magic Workshop owners have fewer workshops, but all workshops count the same. Reducing the number of required items affects all players, not magic workshop owners who remain seriously disadvantaged.
@Dizzy Lizzie I wrote in my original post you quoted that previously I had 7 regular workshops. I sold 6 of my workshops and purchased with diamonds three magic workshops. That leaves me only 4 workshops meaning if a quest demands 5 then I would need to use some workshops twice to complete that quests. But if I had regular workshops I could cope with my (more) regular workshops.
These 6 sold Workshops were level 32 [Constructs] demanding 4,375 population each and outputting 4,280 supplies/h each. They were replaced with 3 Magic Workshops demanding 5600 population and outputting 8,100 supplies/h each.
Approximately each Magic Workshop outputs twice as many supplies as regular so you need half as many workshops. But if you are only counting quantity of toolboxes or groceries rather than quantity of supplies then you can produce twice as many toolboxes using more regular workshops than fewer premium workshops.
This could be avoided by counting quantity of supplies produced rather than toolboxes or counting 1 premium toolbox as equivalent of 2 regular toolboxes.
Otherwise premium workshops are punished by the event and players with more regular workshops are rewarded. Do you understand that point?
DeletedUser8409
Guest
In summary
6x Regular Constructs 32 produce 6x4280 = 25,680 per hour
3x Premium Constructs produce 3x 8100 = 24,300 per hour
Chapter for chapter every premium is roughly equivalent to 2 regulars. If you are counting quantity of productions rather than quality of them we are better off for the event producing twice as many toolboxes at regular level than half as many premium.
You are literally making the event easier for (having more) regular workshops and harder for (having fewer) premium ones. That makes no sense.
The only viable solution it seems to me is to count premium productions double. Otherwise we should be able to get a refund for the premiums and a replacement of more regulars instead.
6x Regular Constructs 32 produce 6x4280 = 25,680 per hour
3x Premium Constructs produce 3x 8100 = 24,300 per hour
Chapter for chapter every premium is roughly equivalent to 2 regulars. If you are counting quantity of productions rather than quality of them we are better off for the event producing twice as many toolboxes at regular level than half as many premium.
You are literally making the event easier for (having more) regular workshops and harder for (having fewer) premium ones. That makes no sense.
The only viable solution it seems to me is to count premium productions double. Otherwise we should be able to get a refund for the premiums and a replacement of more regulars instead.
Geminatrix
Soothsayer
I do take the point that players who paid out cash for a premium building are a bit annoyed that it doesn't help them in events where quests are purely based on the number of buildings you can cram in .. but isn't that the case for all event quests that are numbers based ?
we haven't seen this event yet .. so maybe I am missing something
we haven't seen this event yet .. so maybe I am missing something
DeletedUser8409
Guest
No it's not the case. The purpose of the building is not to be able to produce more supplies (as all players can produce more supplies by building more buildings) it is designed to be more efficient use of space demanding more population than a basic building but giving greater output. Therefore you need fewer of these buildings to supply same output.
Previously this made sense as it meant more space which allowed more T1 buildings could be built during an event. So premium buildings helped as they should.
As it's not possible to overproduce (due to the cap) and underproduction means buildings run idle, premium users will have fewer buildings for the same output.
By turning everything on its head so events rely upon fully upgraded rather than level one buildings suddenly premium players are penalised for supporting the game and basic Workshop users are rewarded.
DeletedUser5532
Guest
I would expect no less, but the fact remains that the people (including me) that have paid for premium buildings, and paid to upgrade them are going to be at a disadvantage in the upcoming event.
I used to have 10 regular workshops, and I made the choice to replace them with 5 premium workshops. Regardless of tool output (which is irrelevant in quests such as "make ? x Toolbox etc", people who have remained with regular workshops have a significant advantage as they have twice the number of workshops. It is not practical due to space restraints to build more culture, to allow more more houses needed to build more workshops.
As this company relies mainly on its income from the sale of premium currency, would it have perhaps have been a better decision to take the opportunity to increase the value of premium workshops by simply having each collection for the event count as 2?
Having spent money in this game (my choice) to obtain an advantage in my progression. To find out that this choice is now compromising my gameplay is very sad and disappointing to say the least.
I am sure that somewhere in the middle of all of these changes there are good reasons, however, the way that they are seen and presented to the player gives nothing but an impression of confusion and contempt for the people who enable this company to exist, its paying players.
DeletedUser8632
Guest
I have no magic workshops or residences but I actually feel for people who do. And I am shocked that Inno has apparently no concept of "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".
DeletedUser8409
Guest
Your selling 10 to buy 5 is exactly the same ratio as my selling 6 to buy 3 and corresponds with the same as others say ... which makes sense because of the output ratio and higher population demands. It also matches what @Dizzy Lizzie herself said about premium workshop players having fewer workshops.
Having a premium count as 2 would be a clean and simple way to balance this out and reward premium players appropriately for their purchase without disadvantaging regular workshop players. If anything there'd still be a very slight boost towards regular workshop players [as premium players would need to produce half rounded up] but it would balance on the round.
Either way @Dizzy Lizzie prior to this event going live can we get this issue addressed and a response from someone like yourself representing the game that you acknowledge the issue? Unless premiums are going to be balanced to count as 2 just as they output as 2 to balance it out, I would appreciate a refund of my diamonds and a restoration of my sold workshops.
Timneh
Artisan
@Dizzy Lizzie please explain how lowering the number of required items in the event will remove the disadvantage that premium workshop owners have. The lower number of required items will be the same for all players that take part in the event so the disadvantage is still there, or is the lower number only for premium workshop owners ?
DeletedUser7081
Guest
Can you please explain how 5 MW will not be a disadvantage when producing X Toolboxes and X Baskets of Groceries? When compared to 10 WS that would need the same population? I have checked out the list of quests and am shocked - I usually take a week to start on the event as I don't prepare in advance and always barely finish (the last event was an exception as I spent tons of boosters), so don't see myself as enjoying this event one bit! What is the point of spending diamonds on MW if Inno pulls a stunt like this?
There is also one thing for whoever thought of this brilliant "OMG Let's not let them win too much prizes and block them completely" idea:
Some people will def get a lot of prizes - they are committed and love the game. They have time to invest and desire to rock at the game. Then you will have some who will see that and say - well I don't have that much time but I still want to be awesome in the game. Those will spend $$ on the game. The ones who spend time on the game will drive some to spend more diamonds to achieve same results (I used to say that I would rather spend 2h to earn money to buy something in-game than spend twice the time to get the same thing from an event and to torture myself with planning events etc. I have a stressful job and want to enjoy my games!).
I don't see anyone enjoying this nor would you make any profit as now I think people will think carefully before buying any MWs and the event is terrible user experience so I would not even be surprised some decided not to play anymore (there are players who enjoy planning events).
Lastly, your decision makers have shown how much they truly value player feedback. We are your customers even though some might end up spending the whole day in the store and leave without buying a single thing. And you are currently showing us the middle finger.
All in all, Inno shot themselves in the leg.
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Pauly7
Magus
I don't have Magic Workshops, but I can see the problem for sure. It is just one aspect, though, of a system which seeks to disadvantage many players, either for this reason or for others. The difference here is that Magic Workshops have cost real money so I do feel the annoyance of those people. In my case it isn't because of premium buildings, but I am also feeling despondent that I have 2 (or maybe 4) workshops that I can use for this quest because I chosen not to have more than a couple of upgraded regular workshops. The same thing goes for Marble Manufactories too.
DeletedUser8409
Guest
Indeed I have zero steel manufactories because I can get my T1 from other sources like Mermaids.
If current buildings are required then it should be possible to build current buildings and skip 13 previous chapters of upgrades.
If current buildings are required then it should be possible to build current buildings and skip 13 previous chapters of upgrades.
DeletedUser8409
Guest
@Dizzy Lizzie A number of people have now explained the issue with Magic Workshops - and most seem to follow the 2:1 ratio of having sold 2 regular to make space for 1 Magic. Do you understand the issue now? Can you help with a solution or a refund if this comes across to Live?
C-Nymph
Necromancer
They will accumulate, see here: https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/release-notes-version-1-88.13588/#post-77774
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m4rt1n
Adept
Is Chapter 15 release imminent and within the current event?
Reposting a couple of @JackLuyt pics from Beta, check the event building level requirements as they include Chapter 15 requirements.
Reposting a couple of @JackLuyt pics from Beta, check the event building level requirements as they include Chapter 15 requirements.
These are two nice screenshots pf tooltips from the event that you may want to share with friends and fellowship, to clarify what needs to be built in which chapters..
Our full event Note is here: https://tinyurl.com/y5o2e9fx
