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Summer Mermaids

  • Thread starter DeletedUser3097
  • Start date

Killiak

Artisan
B) I invite you to address the issue I have outlined in an as reasonable way as @Killiak did.

I am going to do even more. Of course, I do this without knowing the exact state of every building, and your goods/supplies etc, but let's give it a whirl!?
This is your town right now
This is after modification by me

Okay, what did I sell?
Event stuff or Crafting stuff
- Vallorian Valor x1
- Wishing Well x5
- Monument of Ancient Knowledge x3
- Ferris Wheel x1
- Grounds of Orc Strategist x1
- Ferris Wheel Galore x1

Regular Buildings
- Workshop x1
- Steel Manu lvl 19 x2 (use the lvl 16 ones for quests!)
- Residence lvl 17 x3
- Armoury lvl 17 x2 (you will be rebuilding these to lvl 13 in the same spot, for the quests!)

Guest Race
- Day Farm lvl 2 x1
- Night Farm lvl 1 x1


This will net you another 50 spots for a 2x2 building, for which you only need population, which you will have available. It can be done, if you are willing ;)
Of course, if the Wishing Wells/Monuments have not expired yet, you can save them with minimal adjustments, but it will cut into available space.

Good luck!

(Edit; fixed a few little things, found a few more spots, changed the armouries to lvl 13)
 
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DeletedUser8409

Guest
I have more KP than I can reasonably distribute. I can't trade for guest race goods. And people I trust keep telling me to keep portal profits for the Orc chapter.
Unless you are an extreme end-game player there is never a point when you have more KP than you can distribute as that is what Ancient Wonders [AWs] are for. And AWs make your city more efficient and mean you need fewer buildings.

As you progress through the Guest Races it will be harder and harder to produce guest race goods as quick as you can produce KPs, but that is where AWs come in. You can dump an almost infinite amount of KPs into AWs and as you do they become better and better. A well developed AW is better than bog standard buildings.

For starters the best AW to begin with for almost any player is the Golden Abyss, it is smaller than a Residence later on but packs the punch of multiple residences and gives a ton of coins too.

One other factor with Ancient Wonders is the biggest return on investment comes when you fill the rune ring again - it costs no KP to do so, but upgrading that gives you double what a normal upgrade gives. Therefore the KP on the final round before the ring is worth 3 normal upgrades. Looking at your city you have a few AWs that are prime for being upgraded and if they are will give a big bonus. Your Tome and MM are both on level 4, get the KPs filled on those and you can get that upgraded to 5, then do the rune circle to get it to 6 - 3 levels for the price of one. Your GA is level 8 - concentrate on that and try to get it to 11 and you'll probably be able to sell a Residence.

Your AWs are already built, they're taking all the space they're going to take. Unlike guest race buildings upgrading them never increases their size. So you can slow down on your guest race, concentrate on event and put your KP into your AWs. Win/win.
 

DeletedUser8921

Guest
@Killiak, it seems like with your plan, the player is losing a LOT of population. You then say he will rebuild some buildings for quests -- where does that population come from?

You also cut steel production by almost half. I believe people have advised to just trade cross-tier for t1 goods, but that just contributes to the problem with a surplus of t2 and t3 and lack of t1 goods. Maybe that would work, maybe it wouldn't -- but is it healthy for a player's trading partners and fellowship?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
For starters the best AW to begin with for almost any player is the Golden Abyss, it is smaller than a Residence later on but packs the punch of multiple residences and gives a ton of coins too.

Population wise, it is the worst wonder to start with, it only becomes better around chapter 5
 

Killiak

Artisan
@Crowella
Good thing you mentioned me, because I did indeed save the other Cozy Farm in the build, to ensure there was enough population and culture to be able to build/re-build things. I edited the post to reflect this.

In short; selling the manufactories (2 of them) as well as a workshop frees up so much population that he can even remove some residences, and then still have enough left over to build all the tiny workships and tiny steel manu's.

Furthermore, the alteration to his production is temporary at best, since the event is not that long, and a fully upgraded Mermaid Playground will cover a chunk of the losses in T1 production. It's a means to an end, really.
 
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Paladestar

Enchanter
Having seen the quests on Beta (and the Gems site) I can tell you that the random quests can be VERY hard for late/last chapter players.
  1. Scouting takes multiple days and if you cannot plan for when to scout you can be waiting a long time. Unless you use time boosts. I guess that is what you want us to do, use them up so we can get more as daily prizes.
  2. Research quests are impossible if you have finished the last chapter.
  3. Upgrade to level 14 or 16+ quests can be very difficult if you have upgraded everything already while you wait for a new chapter.
At least with the predictable quest sequence you could plan for these quests and get things set in advance.

But I guess that if I really want to win the prizes in this event I can use up lots of time boosts and blast through the quests without any problems.
But I haven't yet, on Beta, seen any prizes that excite me to do so. The time instants daily prizes may be the best things offered.

By the way, the evolving building is almost useless to late game players. Mediocre population and culture and Tier 1 goods. We hardly need them anymore!

I hope that random quests don't become the way of the future. If they do I will be sitting out most events. But I am sure that they will be popular with the diamond players who will be able to spend cash to win absolutely everything.

The sheer number of times these quests come up for me is a troll! 60-hour scout, so no-go, unless the stars align (can I have a pause scout button please?). Finished all research. Quickly running out of buildings to upgrade! Two to 16 at once is evil and without warning more so. Worse yet, I can wait half the damn day to do this quest, then three quests later it pops up AGAIN!!!! Argh!!!!!!!!!1111122335yu
 

DeletedUser8921

Guest
The problem with truly random quests is that some people will indeed get the same quest 3-4 times in a row. They are the exception. On the other hand, there will be people like me who are totally prepared to collect a pet food and 7 vision vapor and don't get that quest! I would LOVE to get a scout or complete research quest, but still haven't gotten any. I just get collect huge amount of coins or gain enchantments or 9-hour productions. Right now I'm waiting 13 hours for the next tournament round so I can get some enchantments. Probably after that I'll have a 9-hour build or a 24-hour build. But it might just be more enchantments.

If everyone got the exact same quest list in a random order it would still be more fun than this, but overall I'm spending less time thinking about and playing Elvenar than I have in past events, and I'm having less fun. The mermaid building is meh, so I don't care as much, but I actually enjoyed the process of events previously, independent of the awards, having to carefully plan. I know you can do things like start productions and then ignore them after they are finished, but that doesn't fill the "fun" aspect of trying to do everything as efficiently as possible, except for the saving time aspect.

I do like getting free stuff, but past events have been more fun in the getting of it.

Edit: I've been thinking about it, and I have a suggestion. How about if they have a fixed questline for say 100 quests and THEN after that it's random? Something for everyone -- the planners and the random number lovers. Or having two questlines, one random and the other not would also work.
 
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cwgiii

Shaman
Another option: have a fixed quest line of extended length and start each person at a random point along the way. It could even cycle endlessly, if wanted.
Just a thought.
 

DeletedUser6687

Guest
LIKE unlimited quests
LIKE that i heard quests will be random
DON'T LIKE the disadvantage for those who need large 2x2 boosted tier1 factories for the unlimited amount of quests that require them. quests should ask for any tier1 factory production to make things more fair.


Yep..I am a T1 STEEL and think how unfair it is having half the space. ,, in this especially where emphasise is on T1,s.
Unlimited is good but I am travelling at a lesser pace cause of the above. I am waiting till a non steel player brags they have finished. It will be very annoying.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
I am going to do even more. Of course, I do this without knowing the exact state of every building, and your goods/supplies etc, but let's give it a whirl!?
This is your town right now
This is after modification by me
These are solid suggestions, I agree with most of them. A few comments:

- dumping guest race buildings doesn't slow down progress at all. In Fairies portal cap is pretty low, so even 5/4 setup would likely idle for periods of time
- There is plenty of T1 production even after the cut - 60 squares. Many people went through the whole game without getting that much T1 production (40-50 is common). For more extreme cut, you can drop one more T1 (depends on collection frequency)
- Ditto for T2 - there is still 64 squares worth of production. For more extreme cut, you can drop one more T2 (see above).
- You don't have to tear down/rebuild armories. You can keep all 3 maxed (even though many people did it with just 2, so there are some cutting opportunities there). There is about a zillion of residences that are not maxed out (L17 and L18, when L19 is the max for Fairies). You can use these for upgrade building quest.

This is assuming we're talking about EN1 city (Fairies) that was posted. There is also EN2 city that is in Dwarves, and the reason for the lack of space there is a massive Wishing Wells farm - 20 of them, to be precise. And with that much diamond inflow it is certainly easy to afford some premium expansions, so that's some extra space right there.
 

Sir Derf

Adept
Well, I appear to have an unpopular opinion; I am not upset by the format of this event.

I am sympathetic for players at end-stage Constructs.
I am sympathetic for players with long scout times due to heavy scouting conducted before changes were made to the game mechanics.

And I understand that INNO at some point in the past apparently stated that all events should be completable by most/all/reasonable players, or something in that vein.

To which I have felt, "Really? How?"

Few of the typical quests scale to your game progress - Coins, supplies and troops, and sometimes generic goods in quantity. The better your capabilities, the higher the request.

Other than that, everything else has a fixed need, which will have a varying impact on different players in different circumstances.

n Beverages, x Bags of Groceries - How many workshops do you have? How many spares can you make? How many can you have premade?
Gain Spells - How updated is your Magic Academy? How many relics do you have?
Solve Encounters - How scouted are you? How are your troops? How are your negotiation resources.
Make goods - Boost only (sorry steelies)? All T1 (sorry boost-only producers)? How many makers do you have? Or how many spares can you make?
Crafting - How many spell fragments do you have? Combining Catalysts? How many disenchantable items do you have? What if you don't like current recipes?

To my mind, this can't be reasonably balanced in this manner.


And what is reasonable play style for this?

If you can, should you build temp buildings? How many? Enough to prebuild one quest's needs in a single shot? Two? Four? Enough to prebuild goods and supplies simultaneously?
Should you look at Beta information, or faster live players?
Should you delay upgrading buildings outside of events? Should you forgo solving encounters outside of events?
If you have instants and time boosts, how willing should you be to use them?



I'm rambling and slightly off-topic.

Having said the above, I like the randomness.

I would read Beta information. I would, and do, plan ahead. I would, and do, clear as much space as I could afford, and plan out how many temps I can make, selling and rebuilding as needed through the event. I scout enough encounters and build my negotiation supplies. I think about my available Techs and upgrading buildings. I plan ahead to try and maximize my chest opening for particular daily prizes. Depending on how much free room I had, I usually finished events way ahead of time. In this style of play, the challenge is in the preparation. Once in the event, my performance was all pre-planned, mechanical.

With the randomization, I have more engagement during the event. I'm going to have to react and make decisions day by day. I can still do some pre-planning. I have some temp buildings, pre-making some long-term items, but this is more of a gamble. I like it.

And, with the event having unending quests, to my thinking I'm not going to feel too cheated.


Don't tase me, bros... :cool:
 

DeletedUser8921

Guest
@Sir Derf one of the major differences I see in this event is that previously if you didn't want to have your progress be preplanned and mechanical you had the OPTION to not look ahead in the quest list. You CHOSE to do so previously. The random format takes away that choice for those of us who enjoy that planning aspect.

Personally I never planned events out completely ahead of time. I looked ahead to long quests like 48-hour builds and flexibly built and tore down workshops and manufactories or even armories to meet the upcoming quests.With random quests either you leave a whole bunch of finished productions just sitting there or you wait 24 hours for your toolboxes to finish after receiving the quest. I don't find waiting 24 hours while foregoing other things I might be doing in my city because I want to be "ready" for another type of quest to be very rewarding. Of course you may, and that is fine. But if that is what you like, you could have achieved it equally well under the previous quest format.
 

DeletedUser9152

Guest
I think they have just ruined what was a perfectly working system, I liked to plan ahead to the best of my ability, I am not an advanced city, but could always find a little room for workshops and T1s, but its not a level playing field out there now, some one gets an easy run and some of us are getting big makes 9 and 24 hr makes time and time again, I think its not fair, the old way was better every one had to do the same , the only luck you had was in the spinning barrels , drums , shells what ever, I thought the game was to fun, not get stressed or frustrated.
 

sunrae

Soothsayer
I am really enjoying the random endless quests. I usually prepare for any event and in my case this one is no different. Make as much space as possible, build as many temporary buildings as possible, scout continually so provinces are always available and save up the kp instants. I do understand that early and late chapters have their own difficulties but, for me, this is the first event in ages that does not feel like a list of chores to do. It's actually more enjoyable to play.

Everybody has a unique and individual city due to their style of play and goals and where some have difficulties others do not and vice versa. However the way we play is a totally personal choice. There are those who spend diamonds and those that don't, but I am very grateful this is a free to play game and open to all, and there ain't nothing fairer than that. This game is all about making choices, after all it is a strategy game.

I agree that to change the boosted T1 quests to any T1 quests would help a lot of players and I hope the devs do alter this as it's a long overdue change.

I have had the long winded quests back to back but say la vie, I have four cities and enough "work" to keep me occupied on Elvenar. I've read through this thread and appreciate some players frustration and tbh the seaside theme isn't my favourite but hey it's an event, lets enjoy, after all there will be another one very soon, upon that we can rely!
 

DeletedUser8632

Guest
@Killiak @MinMax Gamer

I am tied up with work but I didn't want you to think I am ignoring you. I am not, and I genuinely appreciate all the advice. I will look at it in detail later. But again, thank you!

Also, I need to clarify: I do not struggle that much with this event (although it DOES annoy me to no end :) - Most of my gripes were based on the situation a valued neighbour of mine is facing (all buildings upgraded, scouted to chapter limit, only last dwarven research left that still requires 150K Granite etc.) - but I don't know how to link her city and as I understand it, it doesn't matter anymore since she has since stopped playing.

Again, thank you for the feedback
 

Killiak

Artisan
Another bit of feedback;

It's been said before, and it is obvious, that the developers do not want people to scout too much.
- The system for scouting and fighting on the world map continuously makes it harder the further along you go.
- We were actually told that there is no longer any Advanced Scout research since Amuni, because the devs don't want us scouting so much

Yet this event, ONCE AGAIN, we get quests that force you to complete provinces and quests that tell you either upgrade two buildings (good luck end-game players) or scout a province. Scouting can take over 80 hours (like I have), and upgrading 2 buildings means that you have to specifically build for this if you are way past constructs. Anyway, the real issue lies with forced completion, logically.

Basically, we need more and different alternative tasks for these quests. If you don't want us to scout and/or complete provinces ( the latter for which you MUST scout and expand your map), then the developers should STOP ASKING FOR IT!!!

The above feedback is not new, it's been said for several events now, and it's getting very tiresome that we have to repeat it over and over again. And again, and again, AND AGAIN.

Are your developers deaf or just plain ignorant? I'd really love to know how they can justify this foolish contradiction @Rilian @Dizzy Lizzie @Muf-Muf
 
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DeletedUser8632

Guest
This is assuming we're talking about EN1 city (Fairies) that was posted. There is also EN2 city that is in Dwarves, and the reason for the lack of space there is a massive Wishing Wells farm - 20 of them, to be precise. And with that much diamond inflow it is certainly easy to afford some premium expansions, so that's some extra space right there.

Yep, not complaining about that one. That's a grave I dug myself :D
 

C-Nymph

Necromancer
Yep..I am a T1 STEEL and think how unfair it is having half the space. ,, in this especially where emphasise is on T1,s.
Unlimited is good but I am travelling at a lesser pace cause of the above. I am waiting till a non steel player brags they have finished. It will be very annoying.

I agree that to change the boosted T1 quests to any T1 quests would help a lot of players and I hope the devs do alter this as it's a long overdue change.

Please express your feelings on this post as well, to get more momentum going (if it helps, you never know!) https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/steel-t1-boost-and-events.10545/#post-62099
 
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DeletedUser8409

Guest
Another bit of feedback;

It's been said before, and it is obvious, that the developers do not want people to scout too much.
- The system for scouting and fighting on the world map continuously makes it harder the further along you go.
- We were actually told that there is no longer any Advanced Scout research since Amuni, because the devs don't want us scouting so much

Yet this event, ONCE AGAIN, we get quests that force you to complete provinces and quests that tell you either upgrade two buildings (good luck end-game players) or scout a province. Scouting can take over 80 hours (like I have), and upgrading 2 buildings means that you have to specifically build for this if you are way past constructs. Anyway, the real issue lies with forced completion, logically.

Basically, we need more and different alternative tasks for these quests. If you don't want us to scout and/or complete provinces ( the latter for which you MUST scout and expand your map), then the developers should STOP ASKING FOR IT!!!

The above feedback is not new, it's been said for several events now, and it's getting very tiresome that we have to repeat it over and over again. And again, and again, AND AGAIN.

Are your developers deaf or just plain ignorant? I'd really love to know how they can justify this foolish contradiction @Rilian @Dizzy Lizzie @Muf-Muf
Agreed the idea of Completing Provinces when Scouts take 3-4 days is a major problem. How am I supposed to Complete 2 Provinces when it takes 3-4 days to scout them? It's going to take me a week to scout 2 provinces!

Its good that there's an alternative to scouting available where we can upgrade, but there's no alternative to completion. There needs to be an alternative to completing provinces rather than waiting a week for 2 provinces to scout.
 

Heymrdiedier

Enchanter
i dont know who to quote anymore but seems all angryness is about the same thing.
you get stuck on some quest, well... what did you expect, that with endless quests you would get endless amount of corals?
there are stopper quests in there, and for good reason... we all have limited spaces/provinces/ etc, so wel all get stuck at some point. At that point you should ask yourself what you should do in the time remaining in the event. clear some extra provinces, rebuild some buildings for the upgrade quests? or maybe just say you had enough corals by now and stop investing in this event.

I don't get it, first complain that your done within an week and the rest of the time is wasted with nothing to do, and now complain some quests take longer then a day to finish....

I personally think this event quest balancing is well done. However feels like the majority just wants endless quest that asks to move a building every time (and even then there will be complaints from that person who just filled every tile). If it was all so easy, each quest would only give you 1 coral, and the amount of corals you get at the end, would only depnd on the amount of time you are online. Not really something i would want honestly
 
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