Buying KP vs Wholesaler

[DeletedUser]

Im just wondering why people would buy kp outside of an event. I've just started fairies and my kp costs are about 50,000...

Those of us who have been playing since the beginning did things which we now know should not necessarily be done, such as spending excess gold or goods on kp (for me on my main city it now costs 1667k gold or 20800 planks or 19740 silk or 13600 gems per kp); or not doing the squad upgrade techs that weren't necessary (I've done all but 3), there's no crystal ball which will tell you that in the future you'll find out that what you do now is unnecessary or unwise because you knew no different.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Im just wondering why people would buy kp outside of an event. I've just started fairies and my kp costs are about 50,000...

True pauly7, at least the coin value resets[in the wholesaler] so it is a better option than buying kp.

Buying KP is fantastic, and there is no valid reason not to.
It is a self-replicating investment.
I buy KP constantly, which gets me better wonders which gets me more of everything especially from the tournament.

I guarantee that with 2 otherwise identical players the one who spends excess coins in the wholesaler falls way being the one who buys KP.

E.G. Let's say your current cost is 1.5m and you buy 3 KP per day for a year.
After 1 year your KP cost will go up to 2m and you will have invested over 1,000 KP in wonders.
Maybe you see that and think OMG now 2 million per KP?!!? but seriously it's only a 36% increase, and if you can't increase your income by 36% in 12 months, you're not playing right.

 

[Thagdal]

@SoggyShorts
i suppose that depends on the player and play style.
My current cost for kp is 50,000...so its probably gonna take me 2 years to get to 1.5m

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

@SoggyShorts
i suppose that depends on the player and play style.
My current cost for kp is 50,000...so its probably gonna take me 2 years to get to 1.5m

2,901 KP to be exact, how fast is up to you.
That's a lot of very nice wonder levels.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

What are your options in the wholesaler @Thagdal ? I;d like to compare.

For me it's about 270K of each good from the wholesaler vs 1500 KP for 2 billion gold.

 

[Thagdal]

if i can get the runes required for those wonderful wonders every 5 levels, considering broken shard rates and not using diamonds to get runes.
that would mean putting kp into other peoples wonders too and hoping for runes back which is not a guarantee when others contribute also.

im sure my options in the wholesaler are the same as yours, whats to compare?

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

im sure my options in the wholesaler are the same as yours, whats to compare?

They aren't, I can buy 2200 T1 for 400K coins I'm pretty sure yours is different at your level
If I know your offers in the wholesaler I can compare how many goods you can buy for say 50,000,000 coins vs KP

if i can get the runes required

re: runes, I admittedly didn't really consider those, because you get so many from the tournament, and now so many set buildings give broken ones and then crafting as well... really runes are pretty easy to find

 

[Thagdal]

ahh ok, i can get 170 t1 for 68k coins.
i dont do tournaments very often if at all.

 

[Thagdal]

@SoggyShorts this thread is getting derailed so maybe this should be moved somewhere else. also im not as excited by this game as you seem to be, so no need to make comparisons.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

@SoggyShorts this thread is getting derailed so maybe this should be moved somewhere else.

I agree, @Dizzy Lizzie can perhaps make a "Buying KP vs Wholesaler thread and move some stuff?

also im not as excited by this game as you seem to be, so no need to make comparisons.

I like puzzles of all kinds, and dislike when others get or give bad advice, so if I can solve a puzzle and give good advice all in one, I'm interested
So naturally, I did your comparison anyways:
100,000,000 coins in wholesaler gets you 5,950 of each non-boosted good from the wholesaler, which is less than a day's production
or
541 KP while raising the price per KP to 320K, a very reasonable number imo.

 

[Thagdal]

I dont see how not buying kp is bad advice.
I only use the wholesaler if my stock of gold or production is full. The wholesaler resets the gold/production value everyday whereas you keep buying kp at an ever increasing cost.
So only buying kp for a quest is reasonable advice imo.

 

[DeletedUser7017]

I believe it is because there is actually no such thing as a Tournament Encounter.

There is an Encounter, which takes place in a new province on the map.
There is a Tournament, which take place in a previously discovered province.

There are 2 separate things in the game. . On the last event when Tournaments counted you may remember that the quest was worded as Tournament OR Encounter.

well I'm stuck at the 1st 10 encounter quest as I don't have any easy/medium scouting just hard/very hard and I cannot do these as they cost too much. so without the tournament encounters I'm stuck. you don't explain why they did not include the option of encounter or tournament encounter this time ???

 

[Thagdal]

"Solve 3 Encounters". Where's the "or solve 3 Tournament Encounters" part? Have we gone back to counting only World Map encounters?

answer from moderator
For this event the decision was made to leave it at World Map encounters indeed.

@Davideno this is from the beta forum, it was probably deemed to easy to use tournament encounters.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

I dont see how not buying kp is bad advice.

There are 2 choices when capped on coins
1. wholesaler
2. KP

The wholesaler gives you almost nothing. e.g. You are capped at 5m coins, so you buy 170 of each.
That works out to what? 20 minutes worth of factory production? for 2.8m of your 5m coins? pathetic.
vs
46 KP either for a tech, or your wonder.

Make the same choice 3-5 times, and you either end up with a whopping 1-2 hours of bonus production or an upgrade to your wonder.

The only downside to buying KP is that the cost doesn't reset, but worrying about that makes no sense. The only way to keep that cost low is to never buy KP, and if you are never buying KP then what good is having cheap KP?
Also the more KP you buy, the less the cost increases. Going up from 50,000 to 50,500 might seem like a lot, but from 1,500,000 to 1,500,500 is nothing.
You'd need to reach costs of over 5m per KP to start having an issue, and that would take 3 years of buying 9 KP every day

I'm very comfortable advising players to buy KP instead of using the wholesaler as it is demonstrably better in every scenario I have tested.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

well I'm stuck at the 1st 10 encounter quest as I don't have any easy/medium scouting just hard/very hard and I cannot do these as they cost too much.

A good FS can really help in this situation by giving you some goods to push through those hard provinces in an event. My advice would be to
1. Always keep 3 provinces scouted, but not cleared, and the troops or goods in the bank to clear them for an event.
2. Get a good fellowship. (I noticed that 5 of your 15 FS members haven't played in over a month...not great)

you don't explain why they did not include the option of encounter or tournament encounter this time ???

It seems that the developers may be making events like the FA where they have 4 different quest lists that they can copy&paste for the 4 major seasonal events. This saves time and effort on their part allowing them to focus on other things(whatever those may be) For the players this means that some events will be harder than others, but at least they won't all be exactly the same

 

[DeletedUser]

I think we'd have to agree to disagree, I'd rather buy 96k of unboosted T1 (with some gold left over) than see the cost of my kp for gold continue to rise.

I have plenty of kp coming in every day, 24 basic, 3 from my tome, 3 from the library carts every other day, plus all the extra rewards from other people's AWs - add to that the tournament rewards in both "free" kp and the instants from chests and I'm laughing.

Then we have the current event - 4 weeks where I'm also earning kp instants; of course, there's always crafting where I could make more - I'd rather have goods than more kp... I'm awash with kp!

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

The wholesaler gives you almost nothing. e.g. You are capped at 5m coins, so you buy 170 of each.
That works out to what? 20 minutes worth of factory production? for 2.8m of your 5m coins? pathetic.
vs
46 KP either for a tech, or your wonder.

Make the same choice 3-5 times, and you either end up with a whopping 1-2 hours of bonus production or an upgrade to your wonder.

Why do I get the feeling that your calculations completely ignore the BTG?

The only downside to buying KP is that the cost doesn't reset, but worrying about that makes no sense. The only way to keep that cost low is to never buy KP, and if you are never buying KP then what good is having cheap KP?

Both story quests and event quests require buying KP. The less I buy the rest of the time the cheaper (and faster to complete) such quests are.

Also the more KP you buy, the less the cost increases. Going up from 50,000 to 50,500 might seem like a lot, but from 1,500,000 to 1,500,500 is nothing.

Not true - the cost ALWAYS increases by 500 Coins. Even your example shows that.

I'm very comfortable advising players to buy KP instead of using the wholesaler as it is demonstrably better in every scenario I have tested.

Deepnds on playstyle - I'd rather have the extra goods than the extra KP.

 

[FieryArien]

This is very interesting discussion, thank you guys for arguing! If @Dizzy Lizzie could move the posts to a separate thread (as asked above), it would be great.

I’ve been always spending my excess gold (and supplies) on wholesaler, because I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to easily buy KPs when an event asks for them. Currently I’m in Woodelves chapter and after reading the thread I’m going to adjust my strategy and occasionally buy KPs.
- The increase in KP cost is not as “dramatic” as it was in earlier chapters, because I earn more gold and my Main Hall is able to hold much much more gold. I still think it’s a good advice not to buy KPs in earlier chapters.
- I’m also going to keep Gold Rain spells in reserve to help me go through the “buy KPs” quest if it catches me in some bad economy situation (like now, when building Weeping Willows and upgrading all those residences to woodelven style sucks all my gold).

Thanks again, you can eventually switch topic and make another detailed and civilized argument about another game mechanics.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Why do I get the feeling that your calculations completely ignore the BTG?

Because he doesn't have one.

Both story quests and event quests require buying KP. The less I buy the rest of the time the cheaper (and faster to complete) such quests are.

so leave your boosted T3 buying KP option open. The events only ask you to buy ~200 KP per year, you'll be fine.

Not true - the cost ALWAYS increases by 500 Coins. Even your example shows that.

500 on 50K is a 1% increase in costs. 500 on 1.5m is a 0.03% increase. That's not the same, you will not notice a 0.03% increase.

Deepnds on playstyle - I'd rather have the extra goods than the extra KP.

Rather have 2h worth of goods production than 2 levels in a wonder? OK.....

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

I think we'd have to agree to disagree, I'd rather buy 96k of unboosted T1

What are you going to do with that 96K of T1?
That's not even enough goods to cater 1 extra province 2 times for 5 KP. Not even close.
Based on your average tournament score of 2400, I'm guessing that clearing 1 more province 2x would cost 30K of each tier, at least.