• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Research Make it easier for late comers

DeletedUser

Guest
I've started playing about 10 days ago. It's a nice game, I especially love the battles. My villagers are happy, the resources are plentiful. The only thing limiting my progress is research. I'm not going to pay €3000 to buy the knowledge points those who started a year ago received for free. Please make it easier for me to catch up with them. (I might pay, but not like that; and I'm not going to pay at all if I don't have any chance of caching up to top 100 players.)
 

Deleted User - 106219

Guest
You don't need to buy Knowledge Points (except for a few times where a quest asks you to buy KPs, and you can buy them with Coins or Goods). Starting now you have access to two sources of KPs we didn't have a year ago:
- whengiving help you might find a treasure chest, and in that chest you might find a KP
- Tournaments. This early in the game the battles will be too hard so you'll have to Cater, but in the begining of the game that is quite cheap so you should be able to finish at least the first Tournament province, which gives 2 KPs (sometimes more than 2)

What do you mean by "the knowledge points those who started a year ago received for free"? I don't remember receiving KPs for free. Could you clarify?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You can't catch up.
Like many other games, first in best dressed. This is not to say this is a flaw in the game, just a reality of the situation. I would suggest there are only 500 or so really active players, with maybe 5000 who play off and on, so you can get to the top 500 after a few months, probably close to 6 months.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
What do you mean by "the knowledge points those who started a year ago received for free"? I don't remember receiving KPs for free. Could you clarify?

I meant the KP you received in a year. We receive 24 KP for free every day.

You can't catch up.
Like many other games, first in best dressed. This is not to say this is a flaw in the game, just a reality of the situation. I would suggest there are only 500 or so really active players, with maybe 5000 who play off and on, so you can get to the top 500 after a few months, probably close to 6 months.

The game (any game) needs to encourage new players to play, and pay. When the new players realize they can't catch up, I'd say most will refuse to pay. That seems like a flaw in the game.

To catch up, some additional 2-5 KP per day are not enough. It needs to be something more like 50 KP per day, decreasing as the players progress to the most recent chapters. I've found out after posting the first message that with these newest Wonders comes one that gives KP, so it seems the game designers are aware of the problem, though I'm guessing the new Wonder doesn't help that much. So maybe a new solution is needed.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I meant the KP you received in a year. We receive 24 KP for free every day.



The game (any game) needs to encourage new players to play, and pay. When the new players realize they can't catch up, I'd say most will refuse to pay. That seems like a flaw in the game.

To catch up, some additional 2-5 KP per day are not enough. It needs to be something more like 50 KP per day, decreasing as the players progress to the most recent chapters. I've found out after posting the first message that with these newest Wonders comes one that gives KP, so it seems the game designers are aware of the problem, though I'm guessing the new Wonder doesn't help that much. So maybe a new solution is needed.

As you have stated, you are new here. Last I looked, what you are asking for never happens in these games (happy to be proven wrong)
Why would the devs GIVE you something when they can get the same thing from you by "encouraging" you to PAY for it?

The first few weeks (as with all these games) are a fast rush, then it slows down to a grind. Doing as you say would negate the grind and the potential for earnings, thus won't happen.

Don't get me wrong, I think a 200% boost tapering down over say 2 months is a great idea, just not going to happen. Can you imagine the outcry from the cash cows that are (and have) spending/(spent) money and you get it for free??
 

DeletedUser

Guest
oldskoolrx7, old goose, let someone new enlighten you. ;)

"Why would the devs GIVE you something when they can get the same thing from you by "encouraging" you to PAY for it?"

They don't get the same thing from me. From me personally, they get less than if they gave me a little.

"The first few weeks (as with all these games) are a fast rush, then it slows down to a grind."

I'm okay with being slowed down later when everybody else is, but not now when the race takes place somewhere else.

"Doing as you say would negate the grind and the potential for earnings, thus won't happen."

InnoGames, and only they, would know better from where their income comes. As of now, some new players might pay €10 for the free builder before they realize that this game doesn't really want them to play (and then they'll give up on the game). But if the game would actually encourage new players to play, then those new players might also pay later on. The only reason not to make it easier with research is if a good part of the new players that spend €10 then spend 200,000 diamonds for KP. I doubt this is the case.

"Don't get me wrong, I think a 200% boost tapering down over say 2 months is a great idea, just not going to happen. Can you imagine the outcry from the cash cows that are (and have) spending/(spent) money and you get it for free??"

The outcry you imagine would only be justified if the previous "cash cows" have spent a lot of diamonds on buying KPs. But since they have always been near the top, most likely they didn't spend those diamonds on KPs. Some of them might even welcome competition. And of course a game with more players is doing better.

Something else to think about, oldskoolrx7. Try starting the game with a new account, you might understand better the utter hopelessness of new players.
It's not like you would lose very much. ;) (I've see you're ranked #3078)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You have some good points. My ranking of 3k or so is not from playing the game a massive amount of time, I am not even into chapter 4 (just starting) of 7 chapters, so this is probably going to tell you how good Inno is at retaining players? Not sure if that makes your point or mine?

You make the mistake? of thinking that everyone plays like you. While it is entirely possible they would get more from you by making the start faster, it is also possible they would lose money (as a whole), as you mention later, only Inno know where their cash is coming from.

The outcry does not have to be about people spending money on diamonds, it can also be about effort. If someone spends 200 hours getting to a high rank and you come along and get it in 100 hours because "I need to get to where you are easier than you did" they have plenty of right to be annoyed.

I don't imagine the outcry at all, delve into the forums to see what people (sometimes justifiably) complain about. Tournaments arrived which made a lie of the selling point "play how you like" as you now HAVE to fight to retain top spots. When this happened, people complained.

Your whole issue seems to revolve around "give me an advantage over the others and I will pay more money". They have that already (pay to win), with diamonds for workers etc. If you can show me that it will bring in a profit, then they may do it. I don't think it will, you disagree. Neither of us can say for certain, so not a lot of point in debating it.

One thing I CAN say for certain is that Inno DOES NOT listen to suggestions that would benefit their players and not be a lot of work for them. As your suggestion would be a decent amount of work for them and may break their revenue system AND involve them taking on board feedback... you are barking up the wrong tree. Regardless of if you are right or not.

In conclusion: I like your idea and it won't happen.
 

DeletedUser487

Guest
I don't think it's fair that someone who has just started playing should be given a special advantage to progress faster. It is unfortunate that you have just started playing, but we have had to go through the grind. I don't think Elvenar is really a game where you need to catch up, you play it more at your own pace.

Joining an established fellowship may help you progress faster, but I don't think you should be getting bonus KP just because you have just started playing. We had to live with the 24 KP per day and research is still a huge pain, no matter how far you have progressed.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
The outcry does not have to be about people spending money on diamonds, it can also be about effort. If someone spends 200 hours getting to a high rank and you come along and get it in 100 hours because "I need to get to where you are easier than you did" they have plenty of right to be annoyed.

Your whole issue seems to revolve around "give me an advantage over the others and I will pay more money".

Somehow, you're failing to understand anything. I could never outrank someone without spending more money, more time, and/or play smarter.
 

DeletedUser1265

Guest
We all had to start somewhere. I started in December 2015 and had to claw my way up the tree. Back then fellows that were 30k points ahead of me was just as daunting as a 100k today. I had to wait for KPs. I had to grow my city one lousy knowledge point at a time. I don't play 24/7 but I still grow but I had to put in the time and the effort. I would probably stop playing if new players get a "fast forward" ... I learnt a lot about strategy and planning and battles clawing my way up through the ranks. Use the time to get to know the finer nuances of the game.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
We all had to start somewhere. I started in December 2015 and had to claw my way up the tree.

Now this is interesting. You started 6 months ago and now you're ranked #152 without paying money? (you only mentioned time and effort)

Edited: Zanyah - 2016-06-13 - removed impolite remark.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser487

Guest
My other comment must merit a reply, as it has been liked by 2 people.

What I am asking you is how far in the research tree should you be able to progress under your proposal? I have played on Winyandor since it went live (can't remember when) and unlocked the Dwarf chapter last week.

Edited: Zanyah - 216-06-13 - removed the quote*
*the quoted text was removed from the original post by me for being impolite.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser1265

Guest
Admittedly, I did buy additional builders & some expansions (no knowledge points). However, it is more time and effort than money, as the exchange rate makes the premium currency really unaffordable. That does not change the fact that I did not get any fast forwards, what is available to me is available to others. One thing that has added to my growth exponentially is an awesome fellowship. It makes a big difference.

Also, I did not "speed" through chapters, I suffered through it - months of it. If I could fast forward any chapter it would be the Dwarves.

As stated earlier, new players do have an added advantage with the most recent releases than those of us that started earlier.

What I am asking you is how far in the research tree should you be able to progress under your proposal?

I am interested in the reply too, so yes, I think it does have merit.

Edited: Zanyah - 2016-06-13 - merged 2 consecutive posts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser487

Guest
Now this is interesting. You started 6 months ago and now you're ranked #152 without paying money? (you only mentioned time and effort)

I think it would be foolish to ignore the fact that most of us been stuck in a rut and bought diamonds to advance one way or another. I have a level 5 builder's hut (I think that investment has paid off), I have bought premium expansions and premium cultural buildings and a few rune shards, but I haven't spent more than I would for a standard game on the PS4.

I think what you should take from @Weirdsister's current ranking is that with time, effort, a strong fellowship (and a little money, let's not ignore this), a decent ranking can be achieved.

Realistically, I don't think you would be able to keep up resource-wise if you were to be catapulted through the research tree. The research tree is also not just about KP, but about having the right resources in place a bit in advance to unlock the various items. As you can imagine, the higher you progress, the more goods you need to unlock things.
 

DeletedUser1265

Guest
Realistically, I don't think you would be able to keep up resource-wise if you were to be catapulted through the research tree.

Agreed, and the quests help... the knowledge tree doesn't really stop growth, however I found that if you don't plan you will be even more frustrated, like expanding too far on the map without having the right tech (squad upgrades) researched in the tree.

Not knowing how to use troops effectively because you were issued with higher level ones, trying to build treants or paladins with not enough workshops to even run production! How much of what you need.... all this comes from growing with the game.

Maybe they can be nasty and give the knowledge points but you still need the same resources to unlock it... mmm. I think that would be torture.
 

DeletedUser971

Guest
You could fast forward thru everything but you would miss out on all the fun things the dev's have lined up for you, cannot really understand why you would want to be ranked in the top 100 after a few days in the game. Also all the things learnt along the way, you would not have and would be a bit out of your depth on how to run your town. The way to set it up and run it is something learnt over time.

The way to progress is a good fellowship, extra builders and time spent on the game. The more time spent running things, the better things will turn out for you.
 

DeletedUser1265

Guest
The way to progress is a good fellowship, extra builders and time spent on the game. The more time spent running things, the better things will turn out for you.

Well said good sir!
To be honest, the best help a new fellow could get to progress is an additional builder.
(and an active and supportive fellowship)
 

DeletedUser1295

Guest
I've started playing about 10 days ago. It's a nice game, I especially love the battles. My villagers are happy, the resources are plentiful. The only thing limiting my progress is research. I'm not going to pay €3000 to buy the knowledge points those who started a year ago received for free. Please make it easier for me to catch up with them. (I might pay, but not like that; and I'm not going to pay at all if I don't have any chance of caching up to top 100 players.)

I feel the statement I bolded in your text doesn't do justice at all to those players who started earlier than you did in any Elvenar world:
First of all: Not a single player receives or has received knowledge points for 'free'!
In order to to acquire the Knowledge Points they needed for their current advancement:
• It took them either a lot of time and patience;
• and/or acquiring a lot of provinces;
• and/or investing in Ancient Wonders of other players;
• and/or by visiting their fellow and neighbors, thereby acquiring some chests containing a KP;
• and/or any other ways I forgot to mention here...

P.S. One could of course buy Diamonds to acquire KP ... but imho diamonds can be invested in far better ways by those willing to spend money on buying them ;)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Admittedly, I did buy additional builders & some expansions (no knowledge points).
Thank you. I too have bought a builder and 2 expansions. I wanted to buy more expansions, but then I looked at the research tree and I started thinking.

Funny how you all seem to have suddenly realized that an easier time with research won't make anyone jump to the top. (except the moderator... who at the moment is the champion of not understanding)

I guess the unrequested advice about the game was well meaning, but I think I was clear about what I was asking and why. Hopefully some game designer will think about it.
 
Top