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The Cauldron

Laurelin

Sorcerer
Exactly my concern! As I have not researched the tech, will I stay on the "classic" recurring quest line or will it change to the "cauldron driven quest" anyway.
The 'classic' recurring Quests are slated to be replaced for all players anyway, when the Beta version of the incoming Seasons is implemented.

Any "no believers / holdouts" in beta aware of the ramifications of this contumacious act of player comportment?
Not yet, but there are opinions that the term 'Quests' may not refer (? only, or at all) to Event Quests, but rather the above spoilered new content, which also involves 'Quests' of a somewhat different nature. Even if so, and if the above is implemented as it stands, there are still problems if ANY Quests which cannot be declined (or which have negative consequences if not completed) involve e.g. 'Brew / Drink a Potion' (which is the same thing anyway) at a time when we've done that for the week. I'm not sure on the details, but there also seems to be some kind of timer associated with the 'Research' function in the Cauldron, so any Quest asking for that, too, could be problematic? I still haven't activated the Cauldron Research, and few players are commenting on this, so I don't know... can anyone advise?

[ Also : 'Contumacious'... I love it! :D ]

Maybe it will be the "mandatory, rather than optional - no" variant - open FS list, no you need to research cauldron... go to spire, no you need to research cauldron [...]
Some games are well suited to using a system of 'Do X to achieve Y to earn Z'. I don't think Elvenar is, frankly, even though I can see it happening. For example : "Do X Spire Encounters to get Spell Fragments to spend on Cauldron Potion to complete Some-Quest-or-Other...". Elvenar's too slow and doesn't allow repeated grinding of 'levels', which this system really does require (e.g. Candy Crush-type games). Inno's trying to wedge Elvenar into a market / gameplay style which it wasn't designed for, IMO.

I guess as Alcaro says we need to wait and see, the critical element being any form of option/declinability
Agreed. I hate being 'railroaded' in any video game, by any means, whether through the storyline, Quests, reward systems, or anything else.

Players in earlier chapters will be able to buy fewer Witch Points, but unless a player goes really deep, I wouldn't expect quests to buy WP to be a problem.
I'm still banging the drum of new players who see the Cauldron, and being bored (as most newbies are, especially post-New Tech Tree), rush to spend everything they can afford on it. It's very shiny and SOUNDS great. The maths of it are way more complex than in most mobile games, so most players won't suspect that there are so many pitfalls, nor that the Cauldron's results in early Chapters are very poor. I can see a lot of players wasting a lot of Resources which new Cities really can't afford, trying to get effects which won't even help them much (and are random anyway). Even consulting the Wiki (and most new and old players alike never visit Forums) makes it about as clear as mud, to be honest.

I don't really understand all of the agonising about the Cauldron.
For me, it's the principle. I was all set to ignore it until / unless player guides are written (by maths people) to help me to optimise it; I play this kind of game precisely because I don't like randomness and I do like playing strategically. I very much object to being forced to engage in any aspect of the game. To me, player choice is paramount in any game, above usefulness, ease of use, Resource cost, or anything else.

For each spell, buying early levels (to rank it up) is very cheap in terms of WP. Later levels get progressively more expensive though. I suggest that it is worth buying a few levels in everything, but investing much more in favoured spells. Exactly what that balance is will vary according to player choice.
I'm no mathematician (my standard disclaimer...), but I'm reading and asking questions of those who are, on Beta, as well as those who read the game files (often the same people anyway). I am told that in order to maximise success, investing in only those effects one wishes to activate is the best strategy, assuming that one doesn't just want to take a random chance each week on any given effect happening - if so, then I don't think the Cauldron really matters at all, to be honest. It's also more efficient, if hoping for only some Potion effects to activate, to Research only some Diplomas. The optimal number for players hoping for the Merc Camp boosts is 11 Diplomas (from any Chapter; not necessarily Ch.1-11).

As I say, the Wiki doesn't make clear how this really works, and if we can't use it strategically and efficiently, what is it doing in a strategy game?
 

Jake65

Sage
I still haven't activated the Cauldron Research, and few players are commenting on this, so I don't know... can anyone advise?
I'm also curious what the "or else" part is

The optimal number for players hoping for the Merc Camp boosts is 11 Diplomas (from any Chapter; not necessarily Ch.1-11).
I'm confused, isn't our number of diplomas the chapters we have completed? So in chapter 16 we have 15 diplomas?

the Wiki doesn't make clear how this really works
Inno: "Here's, a new feature for you.
You have to use it but we're not going to tell you how.
Try to not shoot yourself in the foot."
 

Laurelin

Sorcerer
I'm also curious what the "or else" part is
My breath isn't bated, I must say, although I'm definitely refreshing the Beta Forum Cauldron thread a lot at present! We'll see (in Kylo Ren's voice).

I'm confused, isn't our number of diplomas the chapters we have completed? So in chapter 16 we have 15 diplomas?
It's one Diploma per fully completed Chapter, inc. all Optional Research, but it's our choice which Chapters. They don't need to be sequential.

[...] Try to not shoot yourself in the foot."
... although we DO sell lovely shiny blue Diamond-encrusted sticking-plasters, at a very moderate price, should a very unfortunate accident occur...

OK, now I'm being straight-up facetious. I really need to shut up, at least for a few hours or so! And I will... :D
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
It's also more efficient, if hoping for only some Potion effects to activate, to Research only some Diplomas. The optimal number for players hoping for the Merc Camp boosts is 11 Diplomas (from any Chapter; not necessarily Ch.1-11).

It is a little more complicated than this, since having fewer diplomas increases the cost of ranking up spell effects. I agree that deliberately not researching some optimal techs is a possible strategy choice, although I can't believe that Inno intended it as one. I don't see any of this as relevant to a choice of not to play the Cauldron though.

Actually a suggestion to Inno is that they explicitly remove this option by requiring a player to have acquired all previous diplomas before researching the first tech of a new chapter.

I'm still banging the drum of new players who see the Cauldron, and being bored (as most newbies are, especially post-New Tech Tree), rush to spend everything they can afford on it. I

The same applies to the "buy KP" option which has been in the game forever, and seemingly without complaint.

For me, it's the principle. I was all set to ignore it until / unless player guides are written (by maths people) to help me to optimise it; I play this kind of game precisely because I don't like randomness and I do like playing strategically.

As I say, the Wiki doesn't make clear how this really works, and if we can't use it strategically and efficiently, what is it doing in a strategy game?

Simple experimentation (and a careful reading of the Beta forums if so inclined) will tell you everything you need to understand the mechanics. There is randomness in many aspects of the game (in fighting: the choice of enemy units, battlefield terrain, damage from individual attacks, in Spire diplomacy, in MA offers etc.). There are also strategic ways to improve outcomes taking account of each of those aspects. To my mind, developing the optimum strategic response for the Cauldron is significantly more complicated than understanding the mechanics - but you seem to be implying that the reverse is true. Or are you asking for a cookie-cutter strategy to follow ?
 

Jake65

Sage
It's one Diploma per fully completed Chapter, inc. all Optional Research, but it's our choice which Chapters. They don't need to be sequential.
Ah!! Thanks for clarifying. I was looking at it from my research tree point of view where I would dutifully complete everything before moving on to the next chapter.
This before I started fighting more and paying attention to the threads where the formula is mentioned.
 

Morning Town

Alchemist
Inno: "Here's, a new feature for you.
You have to use it but we're not going to tell you how.
Try to not shoot yourself in the foot."
Inno: "and if by studious data collection efforts and deployment of excellent math wizards, you do appear to be achieving insight to the mechanics and/or strategy - it will change with no notice, as if by magic, for no apparent reason" .... and it will still be working as intended ;)
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
End tech player here! Why I am deprived for getting the reward if all my techs are completed already?
cauldron tech quest.jpg
 

C-Nymph

Necromancer
(This was a reaction to a post by Alcaro that has since been deleted...)
Wow... I just can't wait for the unsolvable quests the Seasons of nightmares will undoubtedly throw at us too. On Beta at least, quests like these got completed by Support. I guess here on Live servers, you are told to just 'ignore' them. Thereby getting penalised for playing the game regularly as it was intended before they decided to introduce new features...
 
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SkyRider99

Mentor
Simple experimentation (and a careful reading of the Beta forums if so inclined) will tell you everything you need to understand the mechanics. There is randomness in many aspects of the game (in fighting: the choice of enemy units, battlefield terrain, damage from individual attacks, in Spire diplomacy, in MA offers etc.). There are also strategic ways to improve outcomes taking account of each of those aspects. To my mind, developing the optimum strategic response for the Cauldron is significantly more complicated than understanding the mechanics - but you seem to be implying that the reverse is true. Or are you asking for a cookie-cutter strategy to follow ?
If you are going to bring cookies, then you must bring enough for everyone. Them's the rule! :)
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
I thought that this might be interesting to share. I decided to bite the bullet and complete all research and get 20 diplomas. The reason being that the most complaints about cauldron in Beta forum were about the cost of improving effects and based on this formula the cost of purchasing additional witch points decreases by 25% for each diploma. I knew I’m risking dilution of effect probabilities for my 5 chosen ones but I also knew that I’ll have more witch points for my potion and the cost of improving effects will reduce.

So here are the results:
  • My chosen 5 effects’ combined probability (as shown when I use only one potion) reduced from 71.4% to 62.4% (9% dilution) when getting additional 3 diplomas.
  • Combined probabilities of 5 effects of a completed recipe increased from 49.3% to 52.4% 1st week, to 55.2% 2nd week, and decreased to 47.5% 3rd week. This could be due to available ingredients as well as more witch points.
  • I upgraded my 5 effects to levels 84, 83, 83, 83 and 83. Here’s my current cost of witch points:
32.png
 

SkyRider99

Mentor
I have fed my thoughts, and washed it down with a fine Chianti.

Questions:

Is donating Witch Points an endless exercise? I mean, it appears that the effects of donating WPs only lasts for a certain number of hours. Doesn't this imply that one is forced to keep donating WPs every day (or so), until the cost of WPs becomes impossible?

If so then this Cauldron thingy smells a lot like the 'buy KPs' black hole of despondency and despair. :rolleyes:
 

Jake65

Sage
I have fed my thoughts, and washed it down with a fine Chianti.

Questions:

Is donating Witch Points an endless exercise? I mean, it appears that the effects of donating WPs only lasts for a certain number of hours. Doesn't this imply that one is forced to keep donating WPs every day (or so), until the cost of WPs becomes impossible?

If so then this Cauldron thingy smells a lot like the 'buy KPs' black hole of despondency and despair. :rolleyes:
As I understand it.....
WP that you use while brewing potions only work for that round of the cauldron.
WP that are spent studying boost the effects permanently.

Like KP, WP get more costly each time you 'buy' them and the cost doesn't reset. The black hole effect :(

If you stick to only using the free WP we get each week you won't get sucked into the black hole but the potion effects will be lower and studying to boost effects will take a lot longer.

Hope this helps. Have I earned a glass of Chianti? :)
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
If so then this Cauldron thingy smells a lot like the 'buy KPs' black hole of despondency and despair. :rolleyes:

Like KP, WP get more costly each time you 'buy' them and the cost doesn't reset. The black hole effect :(

The cost of additional WP reduces by 25% for every additional diploma so the more you progress, the cheaper it gets. Buying KPs gets cheaper as you progress too because your production and coin/supply storage increases. I've never had problem with buying KPs, I probably bought well over 10k of them (quesstimate). But if you don't want to use easy KPs that's of course up to you. Here's my current cost of KPs and I still keep buying them every day:

35.png
 

SkyRider99

Mentor
WP that are spent studying boost the effects permanently.
Thanks for the reply @Jake65. Is the 'studying' activity the one that begins with this screen?

1675903922321.png


When I click the 'Improve Effects' button I open:

1675904052268.png


So for this example, is it telling me that my Coins Production Bonus is permanently/always at 25%, and similarly for the other boosts? Or do I only receive certain boosts for a limited time period, after I have undertaken successful Brewing?

A virtual bottle of Chianti coming your way mate. Bottoms up! :)
 

m4rt1n

Adept
Thanks for the reply @Jake65. Is the 'studying' activity the one that begins with this screen?

View attachment 7050

When I click the 'Improve Effects' button I open:

View attachment 7051

So for this example, is it telling me that my Coins Production Bonus is permanently/always at 25%, and similarly for the other boosts? Or do I only receive certain boosts for a limited time period, after I have undertaken successful Brewing?

A virtual bottle of Chianti coming your way mate. Bottoms up! :)

I don't think that Inno.Games even knows the answer to that, RNG is so involved that I have given up up the Cauldron as nothing more than a publicity stunt after getting all my recipies to level 60+.

I can try lots of combinations going for troop boosters for example and get a random settlement production boost that lasts about 5 or so hours anyway when I am endgame.


A complete WASTE OF TIME in my opinion, never been so upset by any addition to the game. :(
 

Jake65

Sage
So for this example, is it telling me that my Coins Production Bonus is permanently/always at 25%, and similarly for the other boosts? Or do I only receive certain boosts for a limited time period, after I have undertaken successful Brewing?
This is the maximum effect and duration you can get if RNGesus smiles upon you :)
Assuming that RNG gives you a % of your maximum effect, as your maximum increases then so does the 'value' of whatever % you receive on the day of glugging the potion.

Virtual "Hic", thank you ;)
 

Jake65

Sage
The cost of additional WP reduces by 25% for every additional diploma so the more you progress, the cheaper it gets.
Are you saying the cost still increases but the rate of the increase reduces?
Not sure if I'm reading this correctly?
 
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